Utkarsh Narang (00:01.284) Hi Sandiip, welcome to the show and I'm really looking forward to this conversation because this word, soul in harmony, got my eye on your LinkedIn and we'll have more deeper conversations about this. But what I want to start us off with, Sandiip, if an eight-year-old Sandiip was looking at you right now and having a conversation with you, what do you think will that conversation look like? Sandiip Pandit (00:22.813) I think, you know, I always feel that the younger self is always cheering us and our older self, our elder self always has the wisdom, guides through the wisdom. So the younger self will be looking at me and thinking, and having the emotions of pride. man, good, you were there doing what you were doing. You have the courage to do what you wanted to do. Taken some risks. He would be proud about my risk-taking abilities. The path that is less chosen that I have taken up for myself, which I'll talk about later, how that happened and why that happened. So he'll be filled with pride and looking up to me with lot of expectations. Utkarsh Narang (01:20.75) Beautiful. This word Sandiip, I know I've recorded a few episodes now and this word courage always comes up in the conversation. What do think it's about courage that we as human beings get so inspired by, connected by? I don't know what the right word is, but this word courage, what does courage stand for you? Sandiip Pandit (01:43.709) You know, very simple. I have often, you know, we often feel that courage is something about strength. But yes, we also know that the courage is different from strength. Courage is the inner strength, would say, rather, which allows us to be the real me, which allows us to be authentic, which allows us to wear no masks and be who we are in all situations. in situations of adversities. Be the same to the juniors, be the same to the elders, be the same to whoever wherever we go, we be the same, we be the authentic selves. So that is courage for me. And one more thing I would like to add one more layer to this is it is also about doing what resonates with you. And you know, click and trying to find out what your core values are and live your life based on those core values and not look at others and compare yourself with the defined rules of society. Utkarsh Narang (02:58.703) You've shared such a lot of wisdom in 60 seconds. But let's unpack this because you know this idea of authenticity, this idea of living as if you were your own self. It sounds very easy and I am someone who has seen your journey. So I understand the values and you and I have spoken about this. But for someone who who right now feels like they're in a loop, they're stuck somewhere, it seems like what the hell is happening in my life? How does that person come to this frame of values? Because to them, know, it's like when I go to my job, I have to be like nine to five, be someone, then I come home, do my duties, and then the weekend comes. So how do you take people out of that loop in a way? Sandiip Pandit (03:43.623) Yeah, first of all, Utkarsh, we started this podcast straight away. You asked me question and that question was so resonating with me and the soul in harmony that you spoke about. So first, now I'd like to thank you for creating a platform like this where you are talking about all those things that should matter to our working professionals like you and me. Like we have also moved on from our working career where we were in a regular... 9 to 5, 9 to 6 grind, right? So first of all, thanks to that and Ignited Neurons is also very similar on the single lines that of soul in harmony. Coming back to your question, Utkarsh, I feel, you know, day in and day out, I come across individuals who are kind of stuck in the corporate life because I was talking about the defined rules of society, right? I was also defined by that rule of society and the definition of success I will talk about later how that transition happened but when people, come to me with the same situation where they are stuck I help them in one way I tell them okay just decode three things one what your core values are and I help them with the framework what your core values are Second, what your key strengths are. Okay. And third, most important, what your life experiences are telling you about where you need to go, what you need to leave, what you need to pick up and don't look at others, go inwards. So my underlining theme to all these individuals who come to me with this question, as you rightly pointed out, is How do I have the courage to come out? I said simple, the courage is there inside you. You just need to go inward, pick these three things and unfold these three areas of your life. And you know, you're already being guided, but you are saying, no, I won't go that path that way. No, I won't tread that path. So that's how the, in a nutshell, this is how I do day in and day out and Sandiip Pandit (06:07.025) The best part is that today I'm on the other side of the table where I needed some help 10 years back or 15 years back. I did not receive it. The fact, I always say that, you know, there is no success or failure. mean, there is no failure. There is always success or there is growth. There's no failure. So if I did not get a mentor at that time who could guide me, I have, you know, I have kind of... Utkarsh Narang (06:26.404) Hmm. Yeah. Sandiip Pandit (06:35.495) find out my own path which works for others now. I've been able to create a framework which I've given in my book as well. Utkarsh Narang (06:43.551) Beautiful. Thanks for sharing. Yeah, I think I'm resonating with what you're saying. And in terms of values, you know, it's a good platform for us to have that conversation. I typically feel like I'm driven by these five values, which are discipline, excellence, freedom, love and growth. And these five values to me are they they make life easier. Whether and I often say this also, Sandiip, and it might. might resonate or not with you here but I think whether you're doing a nine to five, whether you're a homemaker, whether you're a child, whoever you are, I think every human being should do the work of finding their values because it just transforms how you're moving in life. What are your thoughts on that? Sandiip Pandit (07:26.973) 100 % on that because you spoke about your question was about working professionals so I focus there but I'm 100 % with you on this and in fact I have even homemakers coming to me people who have taken a sabbatical they come to me entrepreneurs who have made it big and they have their own firm but they are not finding that kind of happiness or fulfillment despite doing what they're doing so even they come back to me so Utkarsh Narang (07:33.475) Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (07:38.554) Mmm. Sandiip Pandit (07:55.171) everybody until and unless we kind of unlock that self-awareness and leverage that self-awareness to our strengths core values and life experiences we would be one of the you know one of those unhappy people who die with that regret I wish I lived a life true to myself I wish I had the courage to live a life true to myself and not what others expected of me. So this is number one regret of the world. Utkarsh Narang (08:29.167) Yeah, it's a powerful statement. and, know, I think what I've also reflected upon, Sandiip, is that Once you're in the grind of life, unless you really pause and maybe have conversations with a coach, a mentor, a guide, even just sit with yourself for that matter and meditate if that works or go for a run. I think the time that you spend with yourself is what allows you to understand who you really are and then show it in full strength to the world. How do you think? Do you spend time alone? Do you have a reflection slash introspection practice that you would want to share with our listeners? Sandiip Pandit (09:04.893) wow, so this is one of my favorite phrase that I often use is slow down to speed up. Okay, and I give an example of a bow and arrow. The arrow has to be pulled back on the bow string. It has to be held there for some time to gain the momentum and to point in the right direction. And then only when it is released, it goes in the right direction in the momentum that we desire. Utkarsh Narang (09:13.37) 100%. Utkarsh Narang (09:20.781) Yeah. Sandiip Pandit (09:32.613) And the second example I give is that of a cheetah. Cheetah is the fastest mammal on this planet, right? It runs at 100 to 120 miles per hour. But have you seen a cheetah running all the time? But when it runs, it actually is focused on the prey. It is focused on the speed. Everything is calibrated so well. Utkarsh Narang (09:47.417) Mm-hmm. Sandiip Pandit (09:58.523) And that is what happens when we give rest to ourselves. So slowing down allows us to, of course, as you said, it helps us to reconnect with the true selves, authentic selves, and gather the courage to do something that has not happened. And let me give you an example. See, we can keep on talking about must do and to dos and things like that, which all coaches do, but no, the best part is the example. how in real life this has played for me. In fact, when I was contemplating switching my career from the corporate world of 15 years after my MBA, I worked for 10 years and my personal quest started after my 10 years of experience, but it went on till my 14th, 15th year till the time I decided to leave. So between this 10th year to 14th, 15th year, that is the four to five years period, I call that as a personal quest period and that is when I had slowed down. That is when I reduced my interactions with regular people. You know, I knew that I'm not going to be like that anymore and I started associating myself with people, with the people who fell, who were on my new path, right? And also I ignored negativity, doubts, because when you want to slowing down to switch from one path to another is basically you have some vision in your mind and you know what are the fears which people have around you and they will most probably they will sound out those fear because they want to hear the reasons why they should do it, right? And they want you to answer that. So I didn't want to become that answering machine for them. Utkarsh Narang (11:55.706) Yeah. Sandiip Pandit (11:56.25) I wanted to answer it for myself. So slowing down to speed up is incredible. Utkarsh Narang (12:04.242) I think that's a very powerful point and often say this to my listeners that we should sit and listen to a podcast with a diary and a pen and I think one thing that they can take away from this episode and I don't know what else we'll talk about because this is not scripted but if you can take one thing then find these opportunities to slow down because not even an engine not even an animal as Sandiip pointed out no one can continuously learn and run and run and run and run So you've got to stop and pause. I also use this example, Sandiip, of in India, we used to as kids play with this gulail. I think in English it's called catapult. That's another example. You pull it back to then let go and have it more force. But just sticking back to where we started that eight-year-old Sandiip that we were speaking about, do you have any, do you feel that any memories or any? early experiences Sandiip that you feel allowed you to be courageous or crafted this journey for you that you're on. Sandiip Pandit (13:02.618) If I miss out speaking about this, it will be not doing justice to this podcast. So I'm going to share something which listeners might feel, can this also happen? So I was having a very nice childhood with supportive parents, and I was extrovert. I would say more than... I was not very extrovert but okay fine I used to take the lead in things in my class but what happened in my grade five was I started to stammer. I started to stammer and I picked up from one of the neighbor who was you know like an elder brother and I started copying him and being a 10 year old kid, 8 to 10 year old kid I did not even realize what is happening to me and I could not even speak to my parents and teachers about it. To my parents I did speak and they said, no, no, it happens in childhood. But that was not acceptable to me Utkarsh. Okay. Because I wanted to be outgoing and you wanted to be there, know, being out there. And suddenly I was suppressed. I was receding to the background and it was agonizing me from deep inside. And there came a time, I still remember, I would like to share this moment which is locked in my memory. After the evening assembly, I was coming back to my school bus, I sat in the window seat. And that day, I was asked to stand up and read my lesson. And I fumbled all over. And... I had a feeling that how nice it would be if the floor of the bus opens up and the road below opens up and I disappear and I don't need to show my face tomorrow. There was no concept of suicide or anything at that time. So I just wanted, you know, I disappear somewhere, I vanish so that I don't have to face this again. So that day and the next day, I mean that day was, you know, ended like that. Sandiip Pandit (15:22.225) But the next day I felt that I need to do something. And within, I think, a week or two weeks time, I found an advertorial in a newspaper, Times of India. It was about a speech pathologist who said in his advertorial that a person with this speech disorder has to go on the stage more often to kill his habitable way of speaking. Now imagine... Utkarsh Narang (15:48.474) Wow. Sandiip Pandit (15:52.081) a 10 year old thinking that, my God, if I have to come out of this, the only way is to cross that boundary, go outside the comfort zone. And that time, who knew the concept of comfort zone? I just knew that, you know, I have to risk myself for that. So then there were two choices, one which is painful, you know, go on the stage and face the public, take the risk of being ridiculed. And nobody used to laugh at me. They used to just be mum when I used to fumble. Second, more painful option was to be like this for the rest of my life. So I chose the less risky one. Go on the stage. I started taking part in elocution sports, big time debate, dramatics and all that. Only thing I used to do at that time Utkarsh was I used to... Utkarsh Narang (16:35.866) you Sandiip Pandit (16:49.466) practice for 30 days before the event and I used to do visualization even when I didn't know the word visualization that time. Who knew about visualization and affirmation and manifestation at that time? No one. mean 10 year old kid, imagine. And this is why I said that it came naturally to me and I used to tune myself for only that stage moment. Utkarsh Narang (17:13.049) Yeah. Sandiip Pandit (17:18.141) As soon as I leave the mic, come down from the stage, I used to be the same Sandiip who used to fumble. But my practice of meditation, my practice of visualization, and practice of being conscious, which I'm talking about every now and then in all my sessions, program, books, it roots from this incident where I became conscious, worked on myself for four or five years. By that time, I was out of my home. went to a hospital and when the first vacation happened when I came back home, my parents said, that thing is gone. I said, what? Which one? So I realized, so a new environment changed it. But the thing is, my four or five years of consistent effort of throwing myself into a risk zone. Utkarsh Narang (18:10.541) Yeah. Sandiip Pandit (18:14.279) to avoid the bigger risk of being the same for the rest of my life. So whatever I have actually preached, I have actually practiced it. Utkarsh Narang (18:14.308) Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (18:18.831) Right. Utkarsh Narang (18:23.35) Beautiful. Wow, there's so much in there I want to unpack. So one is for the international audience who don't really... understand what it was to grow up as a young kid in India many years ago. I think dismissal was the first thing but whatever you go to a parent or a teacher with, dismissal was the first thing that used to happen and so to be aware that that stutter is happening Sandiip, I applaud you on that and then what I'm also finding insightful is the impact of environment Sandiip because when you picked it up it was because of neighbor and then through consistent practice when you went to your hostel the environment completely shifted and that habit went away. So again, lessons for listeners, change your environment. If you want to change something about your life, change your environment. Once you've done that, Sandiip is saying consistent effort. Without consistent effort, nothing's going to happen. You have to expose yourself to the fears or the danger or whatever you might call it of being on stage for that moment for Sandiip and practice to achieve that success in that moment. And once you do that over and over over over again, that's when you fully succeed. That's a beautiful story. Thank you for sharing that. Sandiip Pandit (19:32.989) And one lesson I would like to add for the parents who are listening, the parents, because I had a very supportive parents, especially my dad, who used to always voice it out to me, like, you have a very good self-belief. I mean, I don't know how many times I have heard him saying this, even till this day, whenever I take risks, that sound actually echoes in my head that my dad says that. Utkarsh Narang (19:35.076) Yes, please. Utkarsh Narang (19:42.368) Mmm. Mmm. Utkarsh Narang (19:50.234) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (19:56.388) Hmm. Sandiip Pandit (20:02.629) Okay, my dad has accepted that. So, you know, for parents, whatever your son is doing or daughter is doing, you know, they are all unique and that uniqueness is our superpower. So just keep giving them that self-belief. They will do the best that they are meant to do. Don't curb them. Don't try to dissuade them from doing something which is, you know, out of the out of the league. Utkarsh Narang (20:32.356) Yeah, powerful. And the keyword there is what you said, Sandiip, very softly. So they will do what they're meant to do. And this voice in the head, you know, was coaching someone, Sandiip, she's a senior product manager in a company in California. And she would say that I'm unable to speak to my manager and I'm unable to speak to my manager and I'm unable to raise my voice against my manager, even when I know that they're not doing the right thing. And through coaching, what emerged for them was that as soon as they try to go to the manager, They realized that when they were eight years old, their mother used to tell them that, you're not coming first in class. Are you even worth anything? Why are you paying so much to have you in a big school? And that statement still echoed as they tried to raise their voice again. And these things stay with the, what we speak to our children, stay with them for the rest of their lives. Sandiip Pandit (21:22.312) Yes, yes and I will also add to this there was an NLP session which I was doing to someone, a lady who used to get friends with males but ninth time she was told that you are good as a friend and she was looking for a partner who can be a lifelong partner to her and she came to me after her ninth Utkarsh Narang (21:29.124) Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (21:37.956) Mm. Sandiip Pandit (21:53.51) such conversation and when we actually did her her NLP I took her back to her know early days and that is when she said that you know I was not planned to be in this world and I heard that conversation when I was very young and she was I mean see mirror neurons right we feel the way and we project that to the other person So she was continuously being rejected. Utkarsh Narang (22:25.252) Yeah, yeah. And that's the awareness I think we've moved from talking about helping executives to now almost parenting in a way. I think that's one thing that parents also need to be very aware of their emotions. And one thing that used to happen with me, Sandiip, is that I would not... in any way scold my children but I started to realize and this was a few years ago that after 10 pm something were to happen and I would be short tempered and I would realize like what the hell is happening with me so one day I scolded my younger one and he cried to sleep and I was upset. The next morning I realized that what was happening and I realized that after 10 o'clock I am extremely tired, they still have high energy and they want to play but I don't have the energy left anymore. So I apologized to him on the next day which again as a parent is I think every parent should try and do that at least once in their life and they'll realize how empowering that might be. I apologized to him and I told him that after 10 o'clock is one time when I'm extremely tired because of the whole day and that's one time I will not be able to fully engage with you so best is for us to both sleep and he's agreed to it and now that's a practice but I think very provocative things that you're saying I want to have a skip to the next phase of the journey and this word the ignite your spark for me and igniting conscious leadership for you that's the title of your books Sandiip what emerged why why Sandiip Pandit (23:25.951) Yes. Utkarsh Narang (23:49.6) Why did you think of A. Writing the book and then why should someone say pick up that book? What's what's in summary special about it? Sandiip Pandit (23:58.798) So as I touched upon this aspect of self-awareness which helped me to come out of my habitual way of speaking in my early childhood and I have seen that every 10 years the orbit of my life has changed. In the 10th year this happened, in the 20th year I was in college or in the hostel and suddenly I thought okay I was a topper in my 12th when I went to the college you know in a hostel Utkarsh Narang (24:08.505) Mm. Sandiip Pandit (24:27.707) I was exploring life, you know, because I'm a person who is very open to the views which come and, know, imbibe that into my new way of living. So I was trying to explore life. so that happened in my 20th year. And 30th year again, one more change happened is what? Yeah, the personal quest began. So all these things actually gave me one thing and that is be self aware and everything and what example that you spoke about of how you spoke with your son and you were self aware that you are getting angry at the end of the day and the second self awareness that you leveraged it was at the point where you actually spoke with him, right? You had a conversation with him. One, I realized that if I'm self aware, I'm able to see these trends of my life. What if I can share this theme in certain format with individuals who are just living like a bumblebee hitting from one wall to another, not getting anywhere, right? And most of the corporate professionals, and I would not only say corporate, any working professional, sometimes even non-working professionals, they are living day to day. Okay, so one reason was that and second reason was to make the workplace a little better place to live to work, right? A happy place to work. I had faced out of my 15 years my work ex I had seen only two or three good leaders. I mean, sorry to say that but even that rate is good today. You know, even now we don't even see that So And whenever I used to not see a good leader in front of me, I used to always wonder what makes them behave like that. So when I came on the other side, I thought, whatever is in my control, let me write about it and let me tell you this book, Igniting Conscious Leadership, which later got endorsed by Dr. Daniel Goldman. I didn't know that it will happen by the end of my writing, but it got endorsed. Sandiip Pandit (26:50.183) because I've given a framework where I have actually, which I understood that now this book is going to change the way how people is going to approach their work and life together. So while I was writing this book, I did not refer to any leadership book so that I did not get biased, prejudiced by some other framework. And I slowed down to speed up the same thing that I preach. Utkarsh Narang (27:04.698) Mm. Utkarsh Narang (27:09.402) Hmm. Sandiip Pandit (27:19.335) that I practiced, I slowed down, actually paused, put my business on the pause mode for three months to write. Yeah, three months just to write. I used to go to office, write, come back, next day go to office, write. And for the next three months after that, I just did editing. Okay, so coming back to the main question is, one, the regular change in my orbit in my life every 10 years. Utkarsh Narang (27:37.016) Mmm. Sandiip Pandit (27:46.605) And if I did not have that little bit of conscious element to my life or that self-awareness, I wouldn't have noticed that trend and wouldn't have made that shift, right? Leverage that shift to my advantage. Second, I didn't find good leaders in my 15 years of my career. And so I thought that let my writing make little bit of, you know, ripples, small ripples in that ocean of working professionals. Utkarsh Narang (28:22.992) This idea that you're sharing about, know, it's such a fuzzy thing sometimes it feels Sandiip and I have my understanding also but I want to kind of hear your perspective. This idea of what great leadership is. If you were to summarize this in a and I know we can have like a full podcast episode on great leadership but what do you think according to you is great leadership? Sandiip Pandit (28:43.781) Okay, yeah. So how I have visualized it, I have looked at from the lens of conscious leadership, okay? And I always feel that a conscious person, and today big leaders are talking about this, they're talking about compassionate leadership, they're talking about it in different words, but it means the same. okay, so basically conscious leadership, a good effective leadership, I would say, not good or bad, effective leadership is about being heart centered, purpose driven, values focused, which is more allied. instead of being combative and aggressive. Where the leader himself is aware of what's happening, what's happening inside him, what's happening in the environment and he's taking his team along with him in a purposeful and intentional path. with growing together, not only growing him alone or her alone, but growing together. So I repeat, it is a heart centered, purpose driven, values focused leadership style, which is more allied rather than combative or aggressive, where he is purpose and intention driven and together the whole team and the leader grows. Utkarsh Narang (30:08.834) It's a very, very holistic definition of leadership. For those who are either emerging leaders or are on that journey, they should just rewind this podcast and listen to that definition because I think it's a very, it can, it includes the heart. And someone, I recently recorded a podcast with Sandiip and where, where they said that Love is at the center of leadership and I think that is a very important conversation to have which the world is not having enough but then you said purpose, the values and it's more aligned where you grow the whole team and not just yourself. Beautiful, I love that. As you know Sandiip Pandit (30:39.289) Thank you. Utkarsh Narang (30:42.776) look at the orbit forward, Sandiip. You said how your life's orbit changed every 10 years and I think I have a theory for it too where my life orbit has changed almost after every 8 years. So I think I need to write a book on that too. So I'm going to take that away from you. But as you look at the next few orbits that your life will take over the next few decades, if you were to jump to that 85 year old, 80 year old Sandiip and if that Sandiip had one advice for you or that Sandiip turned around and said, Sandiip over the next decades, Sandiip Pandit (31:04.829) Mm. Utkarsh Narang (31:12.494) do this. What would he say to you? Sandiip Pandit (31:16.903) I'll try to build a global community of conscious individuals across age groups. I'm just envisioning, have soul in harmony centers, physical centers, which is more experiential rather than theoretical because I don't believe in frameworks. I believe in experiences. And this is what Utkarsh Narang (31:30.2) Go ahead. Utkarsh Narang (31:35.418) Mm. Sandiip Pandit (31:44.701) the whole journey of Soul in Harmony has been. We have given experiences, have given retreats. Okay, so coming back to the question, so multiple centers all across global community, across age groups, make self-awareness, bring self-awareness in the mainstream. Be it whatever you're doing, it a homemaker or maybe... As I mean, in fact, I would also like to have an NGO where why only rich should have all this? It should be also the underprivileged who should get if they're not able to have the education, know, the bookish education or the other education, let them have the life skills. I would like to have an NGO by the side where the underprivileged are gaining from the life skills and making the best out of it. Utkarsh Narang (32:35.865) Yeah. Sandiip Pandit (32:43.183) and optimizing their resources at the same time having for-profit organizations, centers where people come and feel that, you know, this is the center, this is the place where I can find like-minded individuals, myself and be with the best of the people. Because see today, Utkarsh, I'd like to bring one point here that in 14 years, one challenge which my clients have told that when we come and meet and we do the sessions, Utkarsh Narang (32:56.932) Mm. Mm-hmm. Sandiip Pandit (33:12.423) That is fine but we again come across the same situation in some other way in our life. Life happens and we are back to square one. So to address that concern, we thought that we have to build a community where there is not only one Sandiip. There should be multiple replicas of the same and that is happening. The best part is that even the person who calls the clients today, some days back she was saying, Utkarsh Narang (33:27.32) Yeah. Sandiip Pandit (33:41.974) she's a very young girl and she had this conversation with some with her room partner and she was guiding her on her breakup and I said Janvi when did you pick up on this how did you become so wise I know you're wise but wait then she says sir I'm learning from you that okay And she said, sir, I have not told this to you ever, but whenever you discuss something, listen to it very attentively. And the same thing, I try to share it with people around me and that ripple effect, these things give me a high. So I would like to have many Sandiip doing the authentic work that today which I'm trying to do. I've done only little, but yes, maybe the effect keep on growing exponentially. Utkarsh Narang (34:44.942) absolutely, no thank you that's such a beautiful dream to have and with small drops you'll build the ocean and I look forward to witnessing that journey and hopefully this podcast will also touch a million lives and they'll all be seeking this. I think it's a really important idea of building this conscious leadership because once you're self aware it's just a superpower. Sandiip Pandit (35:07.431) Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (35:10.104) Amazing. Thank you, Sandiip. I appreciate your time. To our listeners, all the links that you can reach out to Sandiip for will be in the show notes. So go ahead and connect with him on LinkedIn and beyond. looking forward to many other conversations, Sandiip. Thank you for your time today. Sandiip Pandit (35:24.955) Thank you so much for having me on the show and I would love to take this forward in whichever way possible. Utkarsh Narang (35:32.858) Absolutely, love that. Thank you. Sandiip Pandit (35:34.173) All the best to you, Utkarsh. Bye.