Utkarsh Narang (00:01.792) Welcome to another episode of the IgnitedNeurons podcast. Today, the person that you see in the chair that you're seeing on the screen is not the usual person that you see on the screen. Because I reached out to Ankur and I said, I don't want to interview you because the world already knows everything about you. And so I invited Ruchi to the conversation, who's Ankur's life partner and is I call women the force behind the brand that is getting built, whatever that brand looks like. And Ruchi, it's such a joy to have you here. And I know We will not speak about the 15 million following that Ankur has. We will speak about Ruchi, the human being. And my hypothesis is that we will speak about parenting, relationships and more about that. How are you today? Ruchi (00:42.786) Thank you so much for having me, Utkarsh. I'm doing very well. Thank you so much. Utkarsh Narang (00:48.47) Amazing. I'm looking forward to this conversation because you know, as I try to do any research on the guests, many guests have some background to them where you can pick up their LinkedIn posts or their Instagram and you can find something. But for you, we had to research Ankur to find things about you. And so it's almost like I'm coming with a blank slate, which is amazing. But the first question we start off the conversation with to just put us in the deep end is that if that eight year old little girl, wherever that little girl was growing up, whatever she was up to. Ruchi (00:50.444) Yeah. Ruchi (00:59.938) Yeah. Ruchi (01:14.327) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (01:18.25) If she were to come and meet you right now, what kind of a conversation will emerge between the two of you? Ruchi (01:20.578) Hmm. Ruchi (01:24.472) So I thought about it, that you what you gave me this question in advance. So I thought about it and like my childhood was a very normal childhood. Middle class parents going to a English medium school. I lived in a community. So my childhood was really wholesome. And you know, I had a lot of friends, very good relationships. Utkarsh Narang (01:45.144) Hmm. Ruchi (01:50.583) like from both sides of my family, from my father's side and from my mother's side. So I had a very wholesome childhood. No traumas. So I consider myself now, you know, when I see myself now, that I was like, I'm like really privileged to have that kind of childhood. Utkarsh Narang (02:01.059) Mm. Ruchi (02:11.992) One thing that I think was missing was direction, which was motivation. Middle class parents, they did not think too much for ourselves that they'll give us direction, do this, do that. So in my school also, we went to a normal English medium school. But what I was good at, I was good at athletics. but something that my school did not encourage and neither my parents. So if I meet that girl today, I would definitely, definitely tell her to pursue her dream and her passion. I was like always into running and playing and everything and that really excited me. But I never got any outlet or any direction that I could make something out of that. So yeah, I would tell the eight year old girl that maybe try harder, look for directions, pursue your passion. That would be it, Utkarsh Narang (03:21.134) Bhaag Ruchi Bhaag for our audience who are not Indian. Bhaag means to run and so that's a movie. Bhaag Milka Bhaag. And so I'm just saying run Ruchi run. Very interesting and you know, even before I kind of share, you spoke about a few things. You spoke about no traumas, It's very interesting. So we moved to Australia two years ago and here in Australia, Ruchi (03:30.104) it. Utkarsh Narang (03:48.696) The culture is very different. So my younger one, he's 11. We were coming back from his parent teacher meeting yesterday and he spoke about an event that happened in school with a friend and he said, I remember that trauma I had. And they use this word trauma so fluently and seamlessly that it's such a normal thing to have a trauma. And I think maybe we also had an... Ruchi (04:03.64) You yeah yeah Utkarsh Narang (04:13.324) I'm assuming we're on the same age band. We also had micro traumas, but they never felt like trauma because like that was like if like parent like if they give us a tight slap, then that's okay because that was part of growing up in India. But here, like even such thing is like a trauma. So how do you think the world has shifted from that eight year old Ruchi to the current Ruchi to see like the world for children and the world in terms of traumas? Ruchi (04:23.766) Yeah, absolutely. Ruchi (04:37.688) Yeah, I think one, our situation has also changed. Like as a person, you know, I can't see an eight-year-old Ruchi that I was from what I am right now. Like now we are also quite privileged. Our kids are so privileged. So, you know, I can't see myself as what I was or how my parents were at my age. We are at very different stages of life. Right now, I think the kind of schools that we are sending our kids to, the kind of peers that they have, I especially feel that I need to protect my children from that kind of privilege. I don't want to give that kind of privilege to my kids. I really want to give them my kind of childhood, which was wholesome and failures and not having everything. But the benchmarks have changed quite a bit. AC was a privilege at that time, but now it's become a necessity. So one has to look at situations from a very different angle. What is basic now was a privilege at that time. So that is a constant struggle that we have, that how do we keep our kids grounded? And the school that our kids go Utkarsh Narang (05:50.606) Hmm. Ruchi (06:06.262) are going to. It is a privileged school. We wanted to send our kids to an IB school. It is because the fees is high, so you have those kind of parents there and the kids. So our constant struggle is how to keep our kids grounded and open to failures and open to boredom. Like today, I was having a conversation with my kid. Utkarsh Narang (06:29.282) Mmmmm Ruchi (06:32.792) All her friends schools have opened up and their school is opening up in another 15 days. And she's like, what do I do today? Because you know, till her friends were around, we also live in a community. So every day, you know, they're going to each other's house. They're playing in the park. They're going swimming. Everything. And today, when her friends have gone to the school, she's just bored and she can't deal with it. She's crying. What do I do? I'm bored. I said, it's OK to be bored. She's like, maybe it's OK for you to be bored. But I don't want to be bored. So it's a very small example. But you know, that's what they're used to. They are used to constant stimulation. They have constant entertainment or things to do. Like this entire vacation time. Utkarsh Narang (07:08.334) So true. Ruchi (07:28.012) around 40 days now for their vacation. Half of the time we were traveling or they were going to their friend's house, their grandparents' house. So she was like super busy. I don't remember being so busy in my vacation time. It used to be like maybe you go to your grandparents' place for a few days and then you are back and then you are in your house and you know, making things work for you. Utkarsh Narang (07:42.54) Yeah. Ruchi (07:54.413) But now with internet, with television, with things around you and access, there's no time to get bored. The situation has... Your creativity dies. That's what I think. You can't be creative because you have no time to think out of the box. But when we were kids, we used to do so many things because we had... Utkarsh Narang (08:06.2) Yeah, that's interesting. Ruchi (08:23.308) limited means, limited number of toys, limited places to go to. So we used to really innovate. I remember the kind of games we used to play. We used to build these houses with the charpai and, you know, with a blanket on top and make houses, make trains with chairs. I hardly see my kids doing that. So I think, yeah, that's... Utkarsh Narang (08:47.234) Not at all, not at all. Those are... Ruchi (08:51.446) The choices and access makes today's kids very privileged and occupied. Utkarsh Narang (08:59.854) Yeah. I'm going to pause. So one feedback. You are right now looking at me on the screen. Look at the camera. No, camera. camera. Yeah. yeah, perfect. Ruchi (09:08.61) Okay, sorry. Okay, okay, yeah. okay, okay. But it's easier for me to have a conversation with you than the... Utkarsh Narang (09:19.444) Exactly. I keep going down. go to my camera and then I go down. I understand it's really hard. Ankur does it amazingly well on everything. So we're learning. Cool. No, I'll pick it up from there and we'll edit this part out. Yeah. Ruchi (09:22.274) Yeah, okay, okay, I'll do that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, one more thing. Did I digress from the question? Okay. Okay. Yeah. I thought I have like really digressed. Okay. Utkarsh Narang (09:35.552) No, not at all. Not at all. I'll bring you back. Don't worry about it. I'm good at that. I'm good at that. That's perfect. That's the open conversation I want to have. Right. So that you feel like you had a good conversation with a friend and that's, that's the core agenda. Selling me, not not Chanu marketing. So let me get to the serious look there. No, I think you're making such beautiful points and there are so many layers to this answer that you just spoke about, Ruchi that I feel like I can pick any of these, but what I'm like, what is right now in bold for me. Ruchi (09:49.654) Okay. Ruchi (09:54.072) Ha ha! Utkarsh Narang (10:13.07) Are these terms grounded? Boredom and failure. And I'd love for you to help me like zoom out. We're both are parents, right? So my kids are 14 and 11 and yours are younger than that. But in the same zone of when you're once a parent, you're always a parent, right? That does not change based on the age of the you're in a different jungle, but you're still in the jungle. So if you were to zoom out, even for someone who's in their 18s and like teens and adults, young adults, 20s, I talked to so many people who feel it is such a struggle for them to stay grounded, to enjoy boredom. How do you still experience it for yourself? Because you are a parent, you are a partner to someone who has a really public life and you have a really private life. So there's this, this almost like dichotomy, right? Yin and Yang playing between you and Ankur on the outside. So the inside could be very different. But how do you as an individual... ground yourself and play with boredom and see failure for yourself. Ruchi (11:14.872) I think our upbringing is such that we are used to failure and people might feel that because I am Ankur's wife and I have not faced failure or I'm not facing failures right now, which is so untrue. I think the fact that we've grown up seeing failures and growing up with failures, it's easy for us. It's in our system. staying grounded is a value that you know. I think I understood and I cherish and I've held on to it that you have to be grounded. There is no way that you can just let your humility, modesty just go away and know. And you're just basking in the glory of somebody who's like a partner of yours, who again, who is so humble, so modest. I don't think so. I can take any leeway and not be grounded or modest. That's a value that we've grown up with and we've cherished and we understand and it is with us. It's one of the most important value system that we have. So that's what I tell my kids. I want two values for you. That you have to be grounded and you have to work hard. These are the two things that I want from you. That tomorrow if you fail anywhere, Ruchi (12:49.366) Because you know how to work hard, you will come up again. And if you are grounded, then you will always stay very close to your values. Respect, not taking things for granted, not being entitled, not being privileged, that all comes with being grounded. Utkarsh Narang (13:10.252) Yeah. Love it. think it's a, it's very accurate. And, you're speaking about these, these values. I what I'm also, and I'm connecting the dots based on what I've heard and seen and read about you and Ankur is that this has not been a, this is the life change that the world is seeing did not happen in one night. It happened over time. And so there was a lot of struggle to get to where you both are and you as a family are today. Right. Ruchi (13:37.688) Mm. Utkarsh Narang (13:37.708) So that's a long-term partnership that you've built and you've seen the failures and not just for yourself and like I'm just connecting this back to my story as well. Like for my parents, I've seen them fail and succeed and fail and succeed again. And so then when it's a lived experience over time, then it becomes easier to, I think, manage. But those who've not maybe experienced, I think for them, this might still be a hard thing to do. Would you agree? Would you agree to that? Ruchi (14:04.888) You know, when you were talking about it, it just came to my mind that, you know, our life, people think that we've had a hard life, but truly, I don't think we've had a really hard life. We've been like, we've been really lucky with God's grace. We've got things back. I think we've never seen it as a failure. Maybe that's why it is. It has not impacted us so much. We've always seen it as life. So it just becomes easy. I don't think our life has been hard, very, very honestly. We know that life goes up and comes down and goes up and comes down. So you just accept it. This is how you live. So it doesn't become easy or difficult. then you don't look at it as failure or success. So right now, maybe this is like a peak in our life, and we know somewhere we will go down, but we know it, that we'll come up again. So when you know it, then you accept it, it becomes easy. Utkarsh Narang (15:12.558) Yeah. Impermanence. This too shall pass because nothing's permanent. Love it. Ruchi (15:14.88) Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And when you know that life will go down, then you just become grounded. That it's OK that life has come down. It will go up. That gives you hope. Utkarsh Narang (15:30.626) Yeah. So it's such a pearl of wisdom, right? So if anyone who's listening to this and is going through a really tough phase in life, where it seems like this is the end of it and this is so much pain that I cannot bear this pain, or I failed in so many ways that, that this is kind of frog bottom, I think this too shall pass. And what Ruchi and I were talking about is that stay, keep working hard, keep learning from your so-called failures and you can use whatever word you want to. And then this too shall pass. Ruchi (15:50.232) Hmm. Ruchi (15:57.378) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (16:00.482) And if you're at the peak of your journey, whatever that looks like, whatever that peak looks like for you, for some it is measured in followers, for some it is measured in experiences, for some it is measured in bank balance. And so whatever that fulfillment looks like for you right now, stay humble and stay grounded because this too shall pass. Very interesting. Love it, love it. Let's go back to that eight year old. Ruchi (16:05.496) Thanks. Ruchi (16:20.778) Absolutely, absolutely. That is life. Utkarsh Narang (16:26.222) Athletics, that's really fascinating. And this is a time growing up in India where if you talk to someone about being in in athletics or thinking of competing, people would not not agree to that. How is that experience growing up? Ruchi (16:27.832) Yeah. Ruchi (16:45.621) See, we come from Delhi. And I think Delhi being a rich state, so it had rich schools which were sending their kids out. Maybe my school was not that rich, that we did not get that kind of exposure. Or I think Delhi was not a very sports kind of city. Now we live in Haryana, Faridabad. And I meet people here, people who have come from smaller towns like Palwal, Utkarsh Narang (17:00.334) Hmm. Right. Ruchi (17:16.346) And girls, I know girls, everybody I know was competing in school on district level at least. in different sports. So I think that is like people my age, they were doing throw ball, kabaddi, basketball, like people I can associate with who were maybe at the same strata as me, but they had more exposure because maybe the state was like that. Their state really pushed kids towards sports, but neither my school, neither the state that I Utkarsh Narang (17:50.318) Hmm. Ruchi (17:55.627) had any kind of access for us. So yeah, we did not have it at that time. Utkarsh Narang (18:05.248) Interesting. You'll have to move closer to the mic because you're too away. So I was unable to, yeah. What that makes me feel is like the environment is going to play a big role in who we become and how we express ourselves. Ruchi (18:08.92) Yeah. Ruchi (18:18.324) Absolutely, the environment, the peers are the most important things that, you know, while growing up, peers and environment is very, very important. Utkarsh Narang (18:30.51) Hmm. Ruchi (18:30.966) So for me, the environment changed, how the environment changed. So I did not get really good marks in my grade 12. So I was not hoping to go to North Campus. A friend of mine, she got really good grades at that time. I'm 45 years old, so I'm talking about, say, 25 years back. So a friend of mine, she got really good grades and she was planning to go to North Campus. And she said, would you like to come with me and I'm going to fill the forms. I said, I haven't got good percentage, so let me just go with her and just enjoy North Campus and check out the vibe in today's language. So I went with her and I just loved the vibe there, the people and everything. I said, whatever course I get, I am coming here. Utkarsh Narang (19:11.416) Mm. Mm-hmm. Ruchi (19:21.69) And trust me, that changed my life. I went to Miranda House and the kind of people I met, and that's where I met Ankur also, the kind of people I met, the kind of environment I was in, that... Utkarsh Narang (19:33.358) Hmm. Ruchi (19:38.999) That really propelled me to do what I am today, because I had absolutely any 18-year-old, I had no clue what I really wanted to do. And after college also, it did not give me any direction that this is what I want to do. But I just went with the flow of what everybody was doing. But thankfully for me, that flow was like a good flow, and I reached wherever I did. So actually, know, at times what happens is you don't know what, where you want to go, but your peers or, you know, the whole environment takes you somewhere which just works for you. Just because it was the right environment, the right kind of peers who motivated you. So it just, it was like a lucky thing for me. Utkarsh Narang (20:26.798) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (20:30.934) Yeah. This, this word was resonating like vibrating in my head as you, as soon as you said it, because luck then plays such a big role, right? Because luck could have taken you to Miranda house or could have taken you to maybe Mumbai or could have taken you to Chennai. don't know. And so what's after like 25 years and we'll go back 25 years ago to that. What my sources tell me that bus ride where you met Ankur, we'll speak about that. but, but, but today's Ruchi, how does she feel about luck? Ruchi (20:45.112) the beauty. Utkarsh Narang (20:59.478) like how much of a role does luck play in life? Ruchi (21:02.36) I think 80 % is luck and 20 % is your own karma. we, Ankur and me, we keep having this discussion. So I have made a theory for myself that, so you get like two or three paths. So that is luck. And whatever you choose, whichever path you take, that is your karma. And then you work on that. Luck plays an immense part. Three kids, four kids of the same parents with such different lifestyles, such different lives. has to do with the big part has to be luck. Because I think the value system will be similar for all the three, four kids of the same parents. Utkarsh Narang (21:49.006) Hmm. Right. Ruchi (21:53.241) If not same, but yes, similar. So the luck has definitely a very, very big part in our lives. Yeah. Okay. Utkarsh Narang (22:00.792) Yeah. Let's break this equation down because I tend to disagree with the, with this high percent. Like I expected a smaller percent, but so like what I'm, what I'm thinking is like, if you were to define what a successful life could look like, right. And we were to define and try and define the ingredients so that listeners could take away something out of this. So right now we are saying luck and karma two ingredients of it. And I'm writing it down as I'm speaking with you, but we also spoke about hard work, right. Which, is. Ruchi (22:15.927) Yeah. Ruchi (22:19.34) Yeah. Ruchi (22:24.426) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that is karma. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Karma is the calm that you're doing. Yeah. Yeah, your action. Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (22:28.814) until unless you're on a path and you work hard. Oh, so you put that into karma. Hmm. So that's your karma, the Hindi word for what your action got it. Got it. 20 % is your action and 80 % is your luck. Hmm. Okay. Because I was thinking of Ruchi (22:45.398) Yeah, yeah. If you really look at a laborer, he's working so hard, harder than what I am doing right now. But obviously, my luck has made me what I am and what we are earning. And the luck that he has has made him earn and the kind of lifestyle that he has. So I would not say that it's only hard work. Most of the people are working harder than me in this world right now. But they don't have half of what I have. So I would just say it's luck for me. Utkarsh Narang (23:09.25) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (23:17.134) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (23:28.75) And where would you put choices then? Like the choices that you made along that path, were they based on luck or were they based on karma or is that a third ingredient? Ruchi (23:34.209) Yeah. Ruchi (23:38.77) Could be a third. That's a very interesting thought. So where would I put it? Third option or first or second? Choices. When I'm thinking about it, could be, again, luck. It could be hard work also. So you can't say. I don't know. Utkarsh Narang (24:00.974) you Utkarsh Narang (24:06.414) Could we, could we possibly take, and this is us just thinking through this. Absolutely. So, so here's what I'm, here's where I'm at. So what I'm thinking is like, what if we were to take 50 % from both luck and karma and put that into choice? Because what I feel is like, yes, 40 % could be luck and 10 % could be your hard work that you put in, or maybe let's give, give that 20%. And then the choices or the mindset that which you operate with. Ruchi (24:06.722) But I would like to hear your side of it. Ruchi (24:18.838) Hmm. Hmm. Ruchi (24:24.599) Hmm. Ruchi (24:28.748) Hmm. Hmm. Ruchi (24:35.756) Hmm. But do you think choices and mindset became, you chose to be like that and you worked hard on it? Can we think about it like that? Utkarsh Narang (24:36.408) would be your, your, Utkarsh Narang (24:46.638) Interesting. I think so. Because, and it could, it would come from somewhere, right? And you know, I was talking to my dad this morning. He's 70 and he loves tennis. And so if he is unable to find a partner to play tennis on certain days, he will take about a hundred balls to the court and he'll stand on one side and serve all the hundred balls, then go on the other side and do the back end. And my mom sent this video to me and he was saying, look at your dad, he's going mad. Ruchi (24:50.786) Yeah. Ruchi (24:56.514) Hmm. Hmm. Ruchi (25:08.504) That's amazing. Utkarsh Narang (25:15.77) and, we're talking about it, but that's where I get the madness from that I'm going to pursue a path and do it come what may, because that's how it is. And so that's a mindset that happened because of parenting, which again, could be between luck and, and, and yeah, luck and choice. Ruchi (25:17.954) you Huh. Ruchi (25:26.348) Yeah. Ruchi (25:30.22) Yeah, you were lucky to have such parents. You did not choose your parents. You were lucky to have those parents. Utkarsh Narang (25:35.618) Yeah. Yeah. I did not. I did not. such a conversation. I don't know if we have the answer. I think we're going to kind of summarize this to our listeners is that if you feel that the current environment is not serving you well, then it's time to change the environment and go and put yourself in an environment that really helps you move forward. Ruchi (25:55.414) Yes, absolutely. Ruchi (26:01.6) Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (26:03.874) Yeah. Cool. Interesting. Interesting conversation. Good dialogue. Let's go back to that bus ride 20 years ago. And I know, first of like it's been 26 minutes we've been having this conversation. What made you from a very private life to say yes to this podcast, which will be like a very public entity or asset? What was that shift? Ruchi (26:12.844) Yes. Ruchi (26:21.88) Hmm. Ruchi (26:27.8) So, like, I am a private person. for the world, but like for my friends, I'm a very open person. And it's a challenge, you know, being Ankur's wife and he's such a good orator. I said, if I come on screen, I don't know what will happen. So I took it as a challenge. know, this is something I'm doing for the very first time. And I was a little scared doing this. And I thought, okay, now that I'm scared, let me just do it. Utkarsh Narang (27:05.452) And how are you feeling right now? Ruchi (27:05.645) So yeah, yeah, I'm feeling pretty, pretty fine now. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for making me feel so comfortable. Utkarsh Narang (27:11.086) Amazing. Perfect. Good job. Absolutely, absolutely. Let's go back to that bus ride. So about what 26 years ago, 27? I don't know if I'm calculating right, but let's go back. Ruchi (27:21.656) Yeah, we met 26 years back. We were in second year at that time. so there used to be this university bus, which used to carry kids from one part of Delhi to the campus, where there were like a couple of colleges. Not a couple of colleges, like 10 colleges all together. Utkarsh Narang (27:26.444) Yeah. Ruchi (27:46.081) So, know, same kids used to travel in the bus. It's just like, you know, a regular school bus. So only school kids. And you make friends, you meet the same people every day. And that's where I met Ankur. In our second year, we are the same age. In our second year, he started coming in the youth special. In the first year, he was preparing for IIT again. So he would hardly come to college. And in the second year, we met and I had a... huge gang of friends and we used to play Dumb charades every day in the bus. that's how, you know, so I saw him and you know, I noticed that, you know, this boy boards the bus and is in the bus every day. And then we started saying hi, hello to each other and we became friends. He joined our gang of Dumb charaders and yeah, that's the story. Utkarsh Narang (28:46.254) Amazing, so sweet. So it was not, no one resisted that this is not the right person for me. Ruchi (28:46.424) Ugh. Ruchi (28:53.784) I resisted. I resisted, yes. So this is the story. how I... I'd seen him many times in the bus, but when... I was sitting on the steps of the bus and I was very tired and he came and he wanted to board the bus. And he's like, excuse me. I said, aage se jao. Like a boss. I said, aage se jao. So he says, it says in. So in the DTC buses... Utkarsh Narang (29:16.472) Yeah. Ruchi (29:22.636) the back end was for entry and yeah. So he says, it's in. So I said, okay, I rolled my eyes and then I let him go. And that is the first time I noticed him. And then, know, because we had spoken, so we started saying hello to each other and became friends. So coming to your question, he was an extremely sweet guy, very, very sweet, very wise. Utkarsh Narang (29:22.69) Right. Correct. Out from the front. Ruchi (29:52.525) the way you see him and he would go out of his way to help anyone. It's been his character ever since I've known him. So when I met him and you I would just feel that you know there are two things either he's acting nobody can be so sweet or he is too sweet so not for me. So I resisted because I thought Utkarsh Narang (30:19.672) Hmm. Ruchi (30:21.654) Maybe he's not authentic. So I could not gauge where he was. So yeah, for I think a year or not year, but couple of months I resisted. And then I had to give in. Nobody will imagine that I resisted, but yeah, that's the truth. Utkarsh Narang (30:23.31) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (30:36.77) What a story, what a story, that's amazing. Yeah, yeah, no, no, I think girls should resist. I've had a very similar story. Yeah, my wife and I met in college first year and she and I was someone who was like till school I was like super introvert, like I would not talk to a girl. And then as soon as I went to college, I was like, this is my switch on button. I'm going to be a different person. And then I proposed to her and then she said, no, no, no. She said, yes, first. Ruchi (30:48.091) Ha ha! Ruchi (31:06.36) Hahaha Utkarsh Narang (31:12.398) And then next day she said, Oh, that was a mistake. No, you're not the right kind. I was like, what the hell? But then, uh, but then, yeah, uh, I, I persisted. I persisted very sweetly. Uh, that's so interesting. But here's what it was. was, Ooh, Ooh, we are back. We are back to that equation. Uh, now I have to think more deeply, but see the here's the edge, right? Ruchi (31:12.439) Huh. Ha ha Ruchi (31:24.024) See that was hard work. Luck got you together and it was your hard work. Ruchi (31:40.827) But if you hadn't met her, you wouldn't be able to work hard on it. So that's why I said 80 % luck and 20 % hard work. Utkarsh Narang (31:49.08) But here's then my element of choice and mindset, right? That if she would have said no the next day and I would have said, that's okay. She is someone who is very arrogant. I'm not going to go back and talk to her. Why did she say no? I'm so hurt. Instead I was like, she said no, that's okay. Let's be friends. But let's see what else can happen in life. And then so that becomes to me like the mindset of the choice. That she said no, but I persisted. And then yeah, absolutely played a role. Definitely, definitely. But very interesting. Ruchi (31:50.52) Yeah. Ruchi (31:54.668) So good, yeah. Ruchi (32:02.658) Huh. Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (32:17.23) But see, that's another challenge I have with the relationships, right? And I'd love for us to have a conversation about this. Now, the person you met 25 years ago, there are certain aspects of that person that are really fixed, like, Ankur is still sweet, Ankur is still helpful and all of that. But there are parts of that person that change through phases also, right? Different seasons, different kind of a human being comes out. Some people might have challenges, some might not have challenges. So what I'm trying to see is like, what do you think is like, a few things that make a relationship tick over time because 25 years is a long time of knowing someone. Ruchi (32:59.842) Gosh. Ruchi (33:10.744) Hi. Okay. I was going to call Chauria. Okay. No. I did not hear your question at all. Utkarsh Narang (33:10.786) Okay. It was, it was on my end. Something happened on my end. yeah, I, I thought, I think the internet go on, went out and then now it's back. Did you hear my question fully? Okay. So let me, okay, let me repeat it. cool. So, so that's my question, which you spend 25 years with the person and hopefully all of us continue to live together. Whoever is a, is a couple and we lived till 80 years old or whatever that number is. Ruchi (33:36.28) Mm. Utkarsh Narang (33:39.884) And we've spent about 50 years, right, with one person. Now for 50 years, there are parts of a person that will be fixed. They'll stay sweet, they'll stay humble, they'll say all of that. But based on what kind of season life is in, whether it's very challenging, whether it's very easy, whether it's taking you to different countries, the person might change a little bit also, right? So how do you think you keep a spark alive in a relationship if that's a good question to ask? Ruchi (33:46.52) Hmm. Ruchi (33:59.897) I'm ready. Ruchi (34:06.488) So I think here boredom also plays a big role. Yeah, so Utkarsh Narang (34:12.504) Hmm. Ruchi (34:16.152) We've had a long distance relationship. So Ankur was in the US for two years and then he was at ISB. So we kept the spark alive at that time. So we are used to things like that. Then when we got married, he was in consulting. So he was traveling for five days and he was there for the weekend. So again, I would say we've been lucky that the situation has kept us together in such situations that we were away from each other, that kept us really alive and wanting each other. And then when Ankur was with Nearby, at that time he was super busy. He would go in the morning, come back at nine and 10. So whatever time we would get, we would really cherish it. Now... Now we are together 24x7. Utkarsh Narang (35:17.102) How's that going? Now, let's take a deep pause. Audience, now is the big reveal coming. I love that how from a very serious conversation, we just broke into laughter. So what's the reality now? 24 x7 Ruchi (35:21.282) Yes. Ruchi (35:31.661) Yeah, so we work from home, both of us. He works from one corner, I work from the other. So we actually just meet for lunch. We have our breakfast at different times, and we meet for lunch. We have lunch together. So that is the time we meet. And actually, you know, in this scenario also, we have to take out time to meet each other, like have a conversation. Because he's busy with things, I am busy with my things. I also like to do certain things beyond work. So I'm out of the house for those things. And I think very important is to have your own space and your own life. and also have a common area, common interest that keeps you together. I think that could be a good formula to keep the spark alive. So we make sure that we have, we go for a date every Friday. We go for a Friday lunch without, know, kids are not around. We don't have to worry about anything. So we do that. We go for vacations together, just him and me. So, and I would say God has been kind that, you we've been working for four years together and we've not wanted to kill each other. Utkarsh Narang (36:59.35) it love it I'm I'm glad to hear that I'm glad to hear that Ruchi (37:04.336) We handle different parts of businesses. obviously, kind of, I handle all the brand collaborations. So for that, I need his approvals also that he would like to do it or not. So we have conversations. One more thing that has made us come really closer in these last four years is working together. Because before that, he used to work so hard, and I was in a different setup. And I would say that, is keeping you so busy? I would not understand. But now that we are working together, I exactly understand what is keeping him busy. So it is easier for me to understand. And it's easier for him to make me understand that what is keeping him busy. And I think that has really worked for us. Utkarsh Narang (38:00.514) a couple of observations. First, think what is playing again and again is that you're so humble and you're so grounded that you even for the beautiful relationship that both of you have maintained, you put in the first line that luck kept us together. So I just, I think that's why luck is coming again and again. We'll have a separate conversation. We'll not do it on the podcast. We'll have a separate conversation on that. But then what I'm amazed at is Ruchi (38:24.504) Okay Utkarsh Narang (38:29.174) That when you get a little bit of time together, instead of complaining for that, why is that time so small? What you're saying is cherish the time. And even when you have really like 24 x7 that you can be in each other's heads, you're still meeting for lunch. You're still keeping that time. Short. That's very interesting. That's very interesting. I never thought of relationships like that, that the time that you spend just cherish that. And it's not about the quantity, but the quality of the time that you spend together. Ruchi (38:47.522) Yeah. Ruchi (38:52.376) Absolutely. Absolutely. I think I get this from my mother. I am again lucky to get this from my mother. So my mother would also, you know, there is a disagreement. You just say whatever you want to say and get over with it and you you start afresh. So I got this from her. So, you know, we don't like really keep the fights very long. We try to, because we have limited time with each other, so we try to keep it like very short. I am a person who likes to express myself and thankfully I can like just shut it off there and move forward. So that also really helps. And he's wife enough. I think so. I'm lucky to have a mother like that. Utkarsh Narang (39:35.469) That's luck. Hmm. You're giving all the credit to everyone. I think that's what you've worked upon yourself. And so it's more than luck, it's more karma, more the hard work that you put in. Ruchi (39:54.913) anything it just came with the with what you say the software Utkarsh Narang (40:02.806) Very interesting. So you're lucky to get the right software, the right version of the software. But then has the software updated in the last 45 years? Ruchi (40:05.912) Absolutely. Ruchi (40:12.352) Yeah, yeah, fights have become really shorter. Ha ha ha! Utkarsh Narang (40:21.305) Has your personal software upgraded in the last 45 years? Ruchi (40:24.15) Hmm. Absolutely. Absolutely. If I had not upgraded my software or anyone, you know, it's very difficult to one, keep pace with a person who's like so popular and so busy. So I had to update my software. I had to work on myself. That is karma. Utkarsh Narang (40:44.258) Correct. Love it. Love wherever you're going with this. So Ruchi (40:49.186) give like full credit to Ankur that you know he took me with him whatever pace he was on he took me with him and carried me with him so that we are all together so I have to give it to him as well yes Utkarsh Narang (41:03.598) Oh, beautiful. This is where we put like an Ankur photo with the heart sign like that. That's so sweet. That's fascinating. And then how has Ankur changed in the last 25 years? Ruchi (41:08.888) Ha ha ha ha ha! Ruchi (41:20.056) Ankur was this very, very sweet guy, very humble, very modest, reserved. He would not talk to many people. But now his work has made him speak to a lot of people. And I think he really enjoys talking to people. That's how he's changed. And earlier he would go all out, all out to be helpful to anyone and everyone. Obviously now, you know, he's maybe making his circle a little smaller. So he's become choosy, but I'm glad that, you know, one has to do it, you know, after a point in time. And especially at the kind of position he is in right now, he has to make himself not there for everyone. Because, you know, people will, I don't know, how will... Utkarsh Narang (42:04.174) Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (42:18.354) Yeah, no, I understand. mean. Ruchi (42:20.31) Yeah, the circle has become smaller and he's become wiser for sure. He was very wise for a 19 year old boy that I'd met, but he's far more wiser for a 45 year old man he is. Utkarsh Narang (42:32.398) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (42:38.488) Beautiful. Yesterday, so beautiful. I love this conversation because this is like so authentic and this is such an honor. Yes, please. Ruchi (42:45.068) Can I say something, Utkarsh? It's so difficult for me to have a conversation with the camera and not with you. When I look at the camera, I can't hear half of the things that you are saying. Utkarsh Narang (42:51.569) Leave it, leave it. We will let Ankur stare at the camera. You can look at the screen. It's absolutely OK. Absolutely OK. Correct. Ruchi (43:01.704) Thank you so much. I'm used to like looking at people and you know in their eyes and talking so this is like Now I know what what difficult job does Utkarsh Narang (43:12.374) I agree. It is. See, podcast helped you upgrade your operating system. And this was not luck. This was conscious choice that I reached out to you and not to Ankur. Love it. Love it. So you've upgraded your software. So again, bringing it back to the listeners because I want to make it valuable for them. I think there are different ways one can upgrade their software and the upgradation of the software can happen. Ruchi (43:20.182) Yeah, absolutely. Ha ha! You Ruchi (43:37.794) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (43:43.628) because of again, challenges that you face, choices you make, challenges would be based on luck as Ruchi is saying, so I agree with her, luck is important. So the challenges will come to you based on how lucky you are to face them or not. And so let that upgrade your operating system. But if you're not getting challenged enough by life, then maybe change your environment to see whether that's a job, whether that's a country, whether that's a business, whatever that might look like. And Ruchi (44:05.439) Absolutely. Hmm. Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (44:11.7) over the years become wiser because that's what's very important. Ruchi (44:14.87) Absolutely. I think it's very unfair to say that for us to become a better person, we need a a different job, or we need something bad to strike in our life to make us better. anybody whenever they realize they can become better self better self and You know, there are so many things that we one needs to work on all the time All the time like nobody's perfect. There are so many things that one can work on so Becoming a better person is just a choice You don't need like that kind of an environment to force you to do that. It's absolutely a choice Utkarsh Narang (44:59.384) Yeah. It's a choice. And again, luck and conscious choice and karma, all three will take you together, I think is what we're saying. Love it. Let's go to parenting because that's also something that I see a lot of posts that Ankur has now recently started to make that shift because earlier I remember he would not share about Vidur or he'll not share about Uzma, right? Did I pronounce the name correctly? Yeah. Ruchi (45:02.615) Yeah. Ruchi (45:09.334) Yeah. Ruchi (45:26.796) Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (45:28.099) So as parents, who are both of you? And maybe you can speak about you first and then you as a couple. Ruchi (45:35.321) So as a parent, I'm a very strict parent. When it comes to... I'm a very disciplined person myself. So I like a certain discipline for my kids. Otherwise, I'm a fun parent. Like all my daughter's friends, they think that I'm too strict. Because I want things a certain way. It's very important for me that my kids know how to work hard. And for that to happen, I am there with them around. So that you know, I know that kids have so many distractions nowadays that you need to keep them in line. So for that, if I need to be strict, I will be strict. I don't want them to like me. It's fine. But they need to do what they need to do. They will like me when they grow up. So that's fine. So I'm a strict parent and Ankur is a strict parent, he's more, you know, he gets lesser time than I do, but he spends a lot of time with both the kids in a different manner. But he's more large hearted and you know, he would let them spend, he would let them... Utkarsh Narang (46:36.802) Very interesting. Ruchi (47:03.8) They will say anything and it will be blinkit-ed and come. For me, very small example. If I blinkit it, you know what blinkit is? Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (47:14.722) Yes, BlinkIt is a, to listeners outside of India, BlinkIt is an app that provides you grocery, anything actually that you can buy within less than 10 minutes. Six is I think the current state, but less than 10 minutes. And by any default, if you're, if you're a listener in Australia, you have to go to a grocery store to buy something, right? So just driving to the grocery store is like 15 minutes. BlinkIt will be getting that to your doorstep in like six. It's, it's mind boggling, baffling. Yeah. But now you can go on. Ruchi (47:21.901) Yeah. Less than 10 minutes. Good. Less than 10 minutes. Ruchi (47:42.391) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So if I've blinkit it in a day, like once, I try to, you know, blink it, whatever I want to buy, just one time a day. So I'm like, let's be disciplined. We'll, if we need something today and we've not ordered, we'll order it tomorrow. It's absolutely fine. Nothing is happening, but Ankur will be like, it's fine. If they want it, we'll just get it. And, You know, so Uzma the other day she came to me and she's like, I am making acronyms. I said, what is that? So she's like, like, Papa will be P for perfect. A for, I said A for, absolutely gets me everything. That's what she had for A. Absolutely gets me everything. And like... I would not do that because I think that you know there has to be some kind of discipline and they need to learn how to wait. So yeah, so important like for these kids it's so important for them to learn how to wait. So I would make them wait but he would not do that. He spends a lot of time in doing things with Uzma. Like she's closer to me. Utkarsh Narang (48:49.55) so important. Utkarsh Narang (49:07.373) Yeah. Ruchi (49:09.836) But he would do things like making Lego, making craft work. He'll sit with her and do it. With Vidur, he teaches him if he needs any help in math or science. So Ankur teaches Vidur. Vidur is 14. Uzma is 8. And so Ankur has got Vidur into a health regime. Vidur goes to the gym. Both of them, plan their food, how much to take, what, how to take it. They make a food routine for Vidur. So he spends time in these ways. Vidur and Ankur, play table tennis together whenever they get time. Vidur is into football, Ankur is not. But table tennis is something that three of us really enjoy. Utkarsh Narang (50:01.454) Hmm. Ruchi (50:07.224) three of us spend time doing that. Then Vidur, Uzma and Ankur, whenever we go to adventure parks, they go to do similar rides and Vidur and I, we will go to the roller coasters. So, you know, we have like set defined territories that we hold on to. So I am the stricter parent. Ankur is not that strict. Utkarsh Narang (50:25.612) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (50:33.696) Mm. Mm. Ruchi (50:35.724) But when it comes to respect, not respecting everyone, then he becomes like the larger parent. Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (50:43.16) Got it. Got it. Got it. I did not know Vidur is 14. I thought he was younger, but so my elder one is also 14. And what's really interesting is like when he started to ask me to take him to the gym, the first few months, I Ruchi resisted it because part of me was like, that's my space. I get to go to the gym and enjoy that time. And now, I have to be a parent at the gym also like Ruchi (50:50.764) Yeah, it's 40. Ruchi (50:58.466) Hmm. Hmm. Ruchi (51:05.153) Huh. Ruchi (51:10.134) Ha ha ha ha ha ha! Utkarsh Narang (51:11.378) Leave me somewhere like, what's happening? And then after a few weeks of resisting, when he persisted, I told him one day, I can go to the gym only in the morning because of work and da da. And you also have school. Will you be able to wake up at 5 30 before school? And he said, I will tomorrow morning. Like that's not possible because for school, have to wake you up at eight o'clock to get you to, and know, they go to school at nine. used to go to school at night. And so next morning he's up at five 25. I'm like, what happened here? And then I was like, Ruchi (51:27.192) Yeah. Ruchi (51:32.349) Yeah. Ruchi (51:39.387) Ha ha ha ha! Utkarsh Narang (51:41.248) Let's do it. so now he's been going to the gym for about six, seven months with me. And I started to love that time. He now decides what workout I will do. And so I keep following him across the gym. It's so much fun. But it's such a shift, right? Parenting because you feel that you need space and then that space gets taken in beautiful ways, but you have to then balance it so that you have space for yourself as well. Ruchi (51:45.528) Wow. Ruchi (51:49.313) Okay. Yeah. Ruchi (52:00.505) Hmm. Absolutely, absolutely. You need space. So we don't go to the gym together like Ankur and I, go in the morning, Vidur goes in the evening. So we are not in each other's space, but yeah. I think they also learn looking at their parents that, know, it just becomes easy. It becomes life for them actually. This is how you live. Yeah, you can be an example. Yeah, exactly. Utkarsh Narang (52:10.83) Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (52:18.83) Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (52:22.37) Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. This is how you live. Yeah. Yeah. And it'll have its own challenges, but this is how you live. Love it. Love it. such a, such a heartwarming conversation we're having. can go on for like an hour more, but I don't want to, I want to respect your time. And then also the respect the time of the listeners. We've spoken about parenting. We've spoken about relationship. I have five pages of notes that I've taken, and the love. Ruchi (52:32.788) Exactly. Utkarsh Narang (52:51.758) everything that you've shared. Now, if you were to go to the future self, Ruchi, 35 years later, that 80 year old, 80 year old Ruchi, if she were to come to you right now, what advice would she have for you? Ruchi (52:56.408) Hmm. Ruchi (52:59.959) Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Wow. I didn't think of this question. I'm so sorry. I have a plan for myself. Okay, I'm a very, as I told you, I love plans. So I always work with plans that, know, I'm gonna do this. If this doesn't happen, I'm gonna do this. So for like most of the things, I have a plan. So I don't know what advice she'll give me right now. Utkarsh Narang (53:14.54) That's okay. You can think right now. Ruchi (53:38.519) because I have a plan for an eighty-year-old of myself. Yeah, can I share the plan with you? So I started doing pottery two years back. And I thought that I'm a hyper person. So I thought I need to slow down. Now I'm in my 40s, so I need to slow down a little bit. So I started doing pottery. Utkarsh Narang (53:42.424) What's that plan? Yes please, let's do it! Ruchi (54:06.206) And I do watercolour painting as well. It really brings you together and it slows you down. You need to do things slowly and wait for the results. So this is a new thing for me and I started doing this so that I slow down and I have something to look forward to when I grow old and my kids are living their own lives. So these are the two things that I love to read. Reading is something that I would like to do. more and I would like to trek. So in my family, Ankur, Vidhur and Uzma, they don't like to trek at all. I love to go on treks and I have thought for myself now, going forward from next year onwards, I'm going for a trek every year. So that by the time I'm 80, my body is used to it and that's life for my body and I'm able to go for more treks at that age also. Utkarsh Narang (54:39.694) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (54:59.406) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (55:04.364) it. Love it. So the Ruchi (55:06.614) the level of difficulty can be whatever. Utkarsh Narang (55:10.04) Amazing. So the 80 year old Ruchi is telling her to start going on treks right now so that when you're 80 years strong enough to go on a lot of treks. Ruchi (55:15.221) Yes. Absolutely, absolutely. Thank you so much for summarizing it for me. Utkarsh Narang (55:23.406) See, that's why I'm a good coach. Beautiful. No, thank you for all the conversation and for saying yes and for just opening up a little bit for the listeners to understand who Ruchi is and yeah, all the background information that you've given on Ankur, we'll find the juicy stuff and share with the world. Loved it. Ruchi (55:42.616) Thank you so much, Utkash. Thank you so much for having me here. It's a different thing for me, you know, talking like this about my life. Because I generally talk to people who know me. So, you know, these questions were, made me think as well. That, what are the kind of answers that I can give, which can, it was not that, you know, I want to give answers. Utkarsh Narang (55:54.476) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (56:03.832) Amazing. Amazing. Ruchi (56:12.564) which can be valuable for someone, but yeah, something that I really feel. Utkarsh Narang (56:17.614) But that's interesting, right? That you gave answers which will be valuable for some people. Because they'll listen to it and they'll say, let me pick that up from Richie. So hopefully this reaches many people. Thank you, everyone, for listening. If you're listening on a podcast platform, do like, share, and subscribe. Put a comment there. And we have to appease to the algorithm gods. So if you're in YouTube, then subscribe to the channel, comment, and share with someone who might enjoy this episode. Signing off. Ruchi (56:26.542) Hahaha Utkarsh Narang (56:46.392) Thank you. We'll stop the recording.