Utkarsh Narang (00:01.274) For today's episode, I have a special guest. And I always say that, but I really mean it today. Because personal branding is something that's very close to my heart and Rosie is the expert that you want to be talking to. Rosie, welcome to the condensation. Looking forward to this hour with you. Rosie Chong (00:16.058) I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me and hopefully I can be an expert in personal branding. Let's see what the next hour holds. Utkarsh Narang (00:24.208) I'm sure about that. But before we move to personal branding, the first question that we open up, it's like our first bookend that we open up the conversation with is if that eight-year-old Rosie were to be meeting you right now, having a conversation and seeing where you've come and arrived and whatever word we might want to use, what kind of a conversation do you think will happen between that eight-year-old little girl and you right now? Rosie Chong (00:47.652) think it would be a pretty positive conversation. When I was younger, I always had very big dreams of wanting to be a Hollywood star. That's very specific. I really wanted to be a Hollywood actress. Went through acting classes, did the whole thing, thought I was gonna be, I guess what Margot Robbie is now. Spoiler alert, that didn't happen. But I think I would want to tell her that we were still able to achieve our dreams, even in a different capacity. And that even when things... go wrong with their heart or they'd feel like it's the end of the world and how can anything ever get better that it does and that all of those low moments balanced with the high moments led us to who we are today. So I feel like it would be a very profound but I don't know, eye opening conversation. Cause when I think back to younger me, I had all of these big dreams and if I think about just being that age, I think, well I didn't achieve any of those. But instead I've created a different. path and set of goals and different parameters of what my dream life looks like and it's normal for that strange. So I think it'd be really fun conversation, very wholesome I hope. Utkarsh Narang (01:47.427) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (01:51.888) wholesome. I love the words you're using, profound, positive and then wholesome. And before I unpack this further, this dream of becoming a Hollywood star, where did that come from? Like, what was the foundation to that dream? Rosie Chong (02:06.148) Honestly, I think part of it is just the idea of wanting to be famous and it sounds very vain. That was it. I wanted to have, you know, a nice big house and I wanted people to come up with me and take photos of me and say, my gosh, sign my autograph. this is, I was a very vain child. The main one I really wanted was I would watch TV show, my favorite show, not my favorite show. One of the shows I enjoyed watching was an Australian show called Neighbors and it's where a lot of Australian actors and actresses start out. It's where Margot Robbie started out. And I just wanted to have my name in the opening credits of a show or a movie. And that was my dream. And I don't really know where it stemmed from because I was never very good at acting. I tried it for a while. I was terrible at it. And it wasn't even stemmed in the fact of, I have such a passion for acting or storytelling or all the things that should actually make someone like things that you should have if you want a career in acting. I didn't have any of those. It was... It was very, very surface level. Utkarsh Narang (03:07.248) And so when you started, you said it was with a future and with the need to become famous. I could see like there was this slight resistance, something there that happened that you then kind of wanted to also correct yourself. But help me understand, like I've seen this a lot. And since we're in the domain of personal branding in our conversation. But what's wrong with that? I mean, I'd love to be famous. I'd love to be signing autographs as you were saying, but why do we as human beings try and try and stop ourselves from being that when we say that out loud? Rosie Chong (03:43.374) I think because it's just not socially acceptable to admit something like that because I think when you say, I want to be famous and I want people to see me and give me attention, it's not the traits of a person that we redeem as a good thing or that we deem as something that is empathetic or humble. The people that we look up to or the people that we aspire to be, that we talk about that are the best in society are... Utkarsh Narang (04:00.176) Mmm. Rosie Chong (04:11.118) grounded, they're humble, they're not people who say, pick me, pick me, I want to be the center of attention because I think as a society we tend to see those traits of being negative, being vain, being selfish, not caring about others, not putting others first, it's all about them and I think saying, hey I want to be famous because I want attention is usually a bad thing or considered a bad thing because it's, well you're not being... Utkarsh Narang (04:25.04) Mm. Rosie Chong (04:40.768) nice or empathetic or humble or grounded, you're being selfish and self-centered in a way. And I think that's where that connotation comes from. Utkarsh Narang (04:46.66) Yeah. Yeah, it's very interesting conversation we're delving into. You know, there's this Indian megastar, his name is Shah Rukh Khan. Maybe you've seen some of Bollywood romantic movies of his, but he once said, and I don't know the words exactly, but he said, before you become a philosopher, try to become rich and famous, something like that. And to me, to me, it also sounds right. I mean, part of me feels like until unless you like really make it in life. Rosie Chong (05:08.152) interesting. Utkarsh Narang (05:16.792) You can do all the philosophy that you want to, but that's not going to pay your bills. What thoughts emerge for you? Rosie Chong (05:20.749) No. I find that interesting because when I think about, you know, big quotes that are remembered or advice that gets thrown around on the internet, a lot of it comes from people who already have quite a big platform. So I think his, his own philosophy, for lack of a better word, or his own thinking of, become rich and famous first. It's like, well, you're already going to have a leg up if you are well known, you have money, you have access to more resources than other people don't. It already sets you up to that next one. But in terms of Utkarsh Narang (05:34.992) Correct. Rosie Chong (05:53.858) I don't know if I agree with if you want to become a philosopher you have to do that first. think anyone can have deeply meaningful and profound advice to share. But if you're thinking from a sense of very like black and white view of a philosopher of someone who is well known for what they're doing and remembered for the ages, sure maybe they're rich and famous great but I don't think every great philosopher or if you're going to be a great philosopher in general do you have to be rich and famous? Utkarsh Narang (05:57.306) you Rosie Chong (06:21.058) It's an interesting quote or like an interesting philosophy that he has. Utkarsh Narang (06:24.526) Yeah, it's a very complex world and drawing different parallels from entertainment to now cricket. Like part of me feels like we can do all the rags to riches stories. We can do everything where someone become like really famous and came from humble backgrounds and did something that the world did not expect them to do. And then those stories become like you start to idolize them. Right. But what if Rosie Chong (06:43.076) Mm-hmm. Rosie Chong (06:48.292) Mm-hmm. Utkarsh Narang (06:49.74) a million others who don't make it, a million others who fail, a million others who don't even see that day of light. I just feel like fascinated about them. What about their stories? Because they're never going to come out. Rosie Chong (07:01.37) And that's the thing, and I think that's what 99 % of us live is just in everyday life, going to work, having a good week at work with clients, maybe getting a promotion or a pay rise, and there our success is. Our ceiling for success is very different to people who are the 1%, and there's a reason there's the 1%, but it's just an interesting observation as a collective group of humans of why do we put certain people on a pedestal, and at the end of the day, we are all still... people. Some people just have more money or they're on a screen or they can sing really well or they're really athletic. Why do we put them up here and have this weird parasocial relationship with it? Utkarsh Narang (07:42.34) Yeah, yeah. Again, think it comes back to what you were saying because society has fed us that message very strongly and there's a lot of almost like unlearning that needs to happen. And I think human beings are not really good at learning and unlearning very quickly is what my assumption is. Yeah. Rosie Chong (07:59.138) Yeah, I don't think it'll go anywhere anytime soon, this concept of celebrity. Utkarsh Narang (08:02.21) I agree with that. I agree with that. But taking back, but going back to your story, when, so growing up, any memories, anything that you feel kind of started to, to, to vividly so define, define who Rosie is going to be as she grows up. Rosie Chong (08:19.566) I feel like being the little sibling, like the younger sibling, I think just started me off for where I was going to go because I was always fighting for attention for my parents giving attention to my older sister and then thinking, but what about me? What about me? And I think that's just where it started of this internalized competition that I was so desperate for attention or the need for validation, which is not a great thing to admit, but it's just where it started. And I've had a great upbringing and Utkarsh Narang (08:26.436) Hmm. Rosie Chong (08:48.566) lovely sister and great parents so I don't want to diminish any of that at all they raised me right and they raised me proper but I feel like as a younger sister I always thought hey me me like what about me it's not fair like I remember that so vividly as a kid but more on a more serious note I can't really think of a moment that I remember thinking I definitely want to work in social media or I want to write a book or be a keynote speaker I feel like a lot of that I've discovered quite recently probably in the last five Utkarsh Narang (09:10.48) 9 Rosie Chong (09:18.274) also years, maybe five to 10 years. Like I said, I thought I was gonna be an actress growing up and then never really knew what I wanted to do during high school. And I think the concept of being comfortable in front of the screen or comfortable performing or talking, I think then manifested itself into, I remember in high school wanting to maybe be a journalist and being on a news presenter, which again, it's this very similar idea of holding the space, people listening to me, being able to... hold a room and hold an audience and share a story or communicate. And I think that's just kind of manifested in different ways. And it's now in the form of creating content and being a speaker, being on podcasts and still getting to share my story. It's just evolved into what I would consider more tangible and more realistic for what I'm doing, especially because my acting skills are like zero. Utkarsh Narang (09:56.304) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (10:11.47) Did you ever try to work on those acting skills? Rosie Chong (10:16.068) I did. My parents were very patient with me. I did musical theatre in high school. I did TV drama classes outside of school. I did auditions. had a talent manager. I did the whole thing. I was just rubbish. I was really bad. But at the age of, know, rapport age of 10 or 12, I thought, this is, this is going to be my big break. And I just don't know what I wasn't good at, but apparently I just couldn't convey the emotions in a believable way is what you need as an actor. Utkarsh Narang (10:29.904) Bye! Utkarsh Narang (10:43.696) Wow, that's amazing. And so, so, so, so parents being patient, taking you to classes, taking you to auditions, all that jazz happened in life. Rosie Chong (10:54.232) Yeah, they indulged my begging of, please mom, please. Utkarsh Narang (10:58.893) that's so sweet. It's funny how, and I have two boys, Rosie, they're 14 and 11. And it's quite a challenge. what you're saying is, and you're two siblings? Rosie Chong (11:11.512) Yeah, me and my sister. So, two of us. Utkarsh Narang (11:13.328) Yeah, yeah. So, so yeah, with my little one also, the elder one's in a different zone. He's getting into like teenage space. So I tell the little one that his hormones are all over the place. You've to be patient with him, man. There's no other way to go around with an elder brother. But as you went through kind of uni, what was life like? Where was, where were things progressing through that journey? Rosie Chong (11:27.189) Yeah. Rosie Chong (11:35.814) Uni, I thought was the be all and end all for the rest of my life. I hustled pretty hard. I barely missed classes and when I did, was still doing class, you know, watching the recordings of lectures at home. I was always working, you know, just a retail job, nothing fancy, but always working and then knew I needed to do everything I could to build up essentially a good resume so that I was hireable so I could get into my dream career, dream life, and all of it could just fall into place. So I was president of the marketing society. I was on the cheerleading team. I did exchange in Canada. did something stupid, like think seven internships over my time at uni. I moved to Sydney to do an internship. I applied for grad roles and all of that. I got decent grades. And then I had had my plan for uni basically since the end of first year, timeline sorted. did a, I had a, four year degree which I pushed out so I could do a summer internship and I could do exchange and then yep I'm gonna learn a grad role because that's what they tell you you know you have to get a grad role otherwise what do you know there's no other alternative went through all of the interview processes didn't get a grad job and thought absolutely spiraled thought my life was over how's my perfect plan not come to life you know I was president and I did all these extracurricular activities and I did internships I got good grades Utkarsh Narang (12:43.728) Hmm. Rosie Chong (13:00.57) How did I not land the role? And so I flew off to Europe for six weeks when I graduated uni, because I just thought, you know what? I have no idea what I'm going to do. I will deal with getting a job when I go back. And I landed a job in media and advertising and haven't really looked back. Utkarsh Narang (13:02.842) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (13:11.984) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (13:16.944) Wow, what did those six, the time in Europe, what did that do for you? Rosie Chong (13:23.96) Honestly, I think it just let me live a little and be 22. Honestly, that was the biggest thing. It was fun. got to be young and feel like I had no responsibilities. I was lucky enough to still be living at home so I could blow all my money on travel and to Europe. Obviously much better with money now, but it just allowed me, think, to relax because I feel like all of high school and all of uni, I was so... Utkarsh Narang (13:41.328) Hmm. Rosie Chong (13:49.37) motivated by having good grades and if I didn't have good grades I was a failure and if I was a failure I had nothing left to live for you know being dramatic of course what would you expect from a drama kid so I think it just gave me the headspace to separate myself from not getting it right or not doing what the right thing was or what the successful thing was and then when I came back I'm pretty sure I landed a full-time job within a few weeks so it was good Utkarsh Narang (13:55.472) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (14:08.848) Yeah. Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (14:15.792) Hmm. Powerful. Yeah. I love to kind of pause and, and let our listeners know. think this, this idea that you're sharing, Rosie, I really kind of, resonate with that and, find it of a lot of power that you create yourself that head space to separate yourself from the situation that you're in, because it's all emotional drama that's going within life's over failure. Nothing's going to happen. And I think building that space really. All the skills are right there. So coming back and getting that job, beautiful. Let me kind of. dive into those internships a little bit. Seven internships, that's quite a bit. Rosie Chong (14:49.624) Yeah, it was a lot. I even got to a stage where I just deleted some off my resume and my LinkedIn profile because I thought, you know what, this is not relevant. I'd rather keep the ones that are more important or more relevant in that space. yeah, it was too many. I was so desperate, is definitely the correct word. I was so desperate to just make connections and fill up my Utkarsh Narang (14:56.869) Mm-hmm. Utkarsh Narang (15:04.014) Hmm. Right. Hmm. Rosie Chong (15:19.51) literal resume with as much as I could that would then set me up to get a grad job because I was so insecure during uni and anxious, especially when it came to success and good grades that I thought, okay, the more I do, the better, but big life lesson, quality over quantity. Some of those were horrendous and a waste of time and unpaid and didn't teach me anything. So would not recommend that to anybody. Utkarsh Narang (15:24.048) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (15:32.432) Hmm. Mm. Utkarsh Narang (15:42.864) Mm. Utkarsh Narang (15:48.976) This thought that you're sharing, being insecure with success, and I know we'll come to the journey, but where have you reached right now? How do you feel about this idea of the word success, dream life, and what's your relationship with all of that? Rosie Chong (16:03.47) I think it's much more positive. I still struggle if I get something wrong or I fail or it doesn't go the way that I had planned, but I think I'm much more motivated in a positive way. I'm no longer motivated by the need to get good grades or the need to have the perfect resume, but instead I'm motivated by, okay, well, where's my dream set and what do I want to achieve? Where am I? What's the gap? How do I do that? And doing that in a much more manageable and realistic way. And I think... Utkarsh Narang (16:11.504) in Utkarsh Narang (16:27.13) Mm. Mm. Rosie Chong (16:33.698) I feel very lucky to be in this position where I can experiment with a few different non-traditional paths of what people would do for work or a way of living. And that is when I'm realizing I'm so grateful that I'm in this position. Sometimes I'm definitely in a side, you there's always a downside, always... saying regrets is a hard word because, you know, I don't... Utkarsh Narang (16:44.016) Mm. Rosie Chong (16:59.876) typically like to regret things, so it's not a great way to be living and moving forwards. But there are some days where I think, would have been easier if I just became a doctor and got paid a lot of money and got to save people's lives and did something really meaningful and impactful. But then I'm in a career that I love that is typically not known as well paid, but I'm so fulfilled in what I'm doing that it kind of balances out. So it's just very interesting perspective to see people in my life who are in Utkarsh Narang (17:03.76) Mm. Utkarsh Narang (17:20.42) Mmm. Utkarsh Narang (17:24.816) Yeah. Rosie Chong (17:30.234) a full-time job or in a career that is deemed successful based on what they earn rather than successful based on how much joy they have and what they're doing, which is interesting. Utkarsh Narang (17:35.088) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (17:41.114) Yeah, it's such a fascinating relationship between, again, society's norm is that what's the size of your paycheck? When are you getting that corner office? And that's the definition, right? No one talks about how do you feel about going about 35 hours or 40 hours of work, whatever work week that one has. And our listeners, Rosy, are in that age group of 25 to 35. And so they're trying to build their careers where it seems that success is that top spot, that big paycheck, when I'm going to get to like... 150, 200,000 and so on. But here's the challenge. So through all of this, when did this journey of personal branding and when did you decide that social media was the space for expression? The actor within had to come out on social media. Rosie Chong (18:29.252) yeah, and I think my love for social media started a very long time ago. I think the reality of that actually then becoming a career and how it came to fruition in terms of content creation and personal branding was much more recent. I launched my first YouTube video when I was at the ripe old age of 14. think when YouTube kind of first started and the idea of the influencer was conceived, again, this obsession I think with wanting to be Utkarsh Narang (18:54.384) Hmm. Rosie Chong (18:59.316) famous and followed and the social validation was a big motivating factor. It's now that's now evolved into, I love to create. I love to share. I love to inspire. So it's a much more positive view on being a creator. But my journey started well over 15 years ago with YouTube. And then it was having a a MySpace account and MSN and That just kind of kept going and my YouTube lasted no more than two months. People found it at high school and I deleted it very swiftly. I was too embarrassed and that confidence and self assurance and being self aware enough of, it doesn't matter what other people think, took a long time to evolve. And I've only really sort of become that confident in the last, I would say two, two to three years. But then. Utkarsh Narang (19:46.48) Mm. Rosie Chong (19:48.282) My personal brand journey started about four years ago when I was working at a social media agency and one of the services we were selling was LinkedIn management and I was in the sales team. So essentially I had to find clients. So that's one purpose of LinkedIn. The other is, well, if I'm going to be having to sell LinkedIn management, I may as well learn how to use it. So I jumped on the platform and those two goals in mind and it, I feel like I landed on LinkedIn at the right time. I was able to build a community at a time where there weren't a lot of people posting or the people who were posting were C-suite executives, the people with 20 plus years experience, not people who were threes in their career and were 25 like I was. And I up leaving that workplace after a year and there was no need for me to have to stay on LinkedIn because my new job had nothing to do with it. I still work in social media, but I didn't need to be selling, I didn't need to find clients, but I had found such a love with getting to Utkarsh Narang (20:31.855) Mm-hmm. Rosie Chong (20:48.716) genuinely share my journey and share my experience and meet people online because in-person networking terrifies the daylights out of me. That it was like, I've started living my childhood dream of having a fan base, which is never how I would describe it. I think by liken it to how I was as a kid, it's kind of like how that came to fruition in a way. But to me, it was a much more healthy relationship with it. It was, I love Utkarsh Narang (21:04.42) Hmm. Hmm. Rosie Chong (21:17.55) documenting stuff. love sharing. love getting to inspire and teach others. And so that's where it started. And it just became this absolute love. And it's been a love-hate relationship over the last four years. Been through a lot of burnout, been through a lot of stages where I want to quit LinkedIn, but it is easily one of the best things I've ever done. It's led to a lot of opportunities. It helped me land my last job that I was in for three years. It helped me land the role I'm in now. Utkarsh Narang (21:33.689) in. Rosie Chong (21:45.834) It's helped me quit full-time work to be able to work part-time and do content creation and freelance. It's helped me, like I was kind of saying earlier, it's helped me create this path that is not necessarily considered traditional. It's not, you work nine to five and you come home. It's, well, I don't work nine to five. have my own clients. I go to brand events. I work with people around the world. I get to document my life and put it on the internet. all of these different things, I'll often say, hey, I'm getting dinner with a TikTok friend. That's not normal, but I love it. And I think that's why everything kind of worked out for a reason. I genuinely believe that not getting that graduate role back in uni when I was spiralling meant that I got my very first role that I did in media, which kind of opened up the doors to, there's a career in social. Okay, let's explore. Utkarsh Narang (22:19.76) Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (22:34.415) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (22:38.192) you Yeah, yeah, it's very interesting, right? You cannot connect the dots going forwards. You can only do that backwards. And now that you look back, can, all of that starts to make sense. But for someone who say, I know 2020, 2021 was like the early days where things were like starting to push, but now you look at LinkedIn, there are, think if there are 1 billion users, 900 million out of those are creating wanting or creating content, seems, it's not the truth, only 1 % do. But what would be your advice if someone's wanting to start their presence on social media and say they picked LinkedIn because of professional reasons? What would be your advice, the top three things that you would say to them that this is what you need to make sure that you think about before you dive in? Rosie Chong (23:22.106) I think the first is taking the time to set yourself up and that can come in a few different ways. can come in making sure that your profile is up to date. Your LinkedIn profile is essentially your landing page. It's one of the first places people will click to. It also follows you around quite literally wherever you post or comment. If people click on your name, they're gonna go to your LinkedIn landing page. So spending the time to clean that up. That could be deleting old jobs. It could be adding keywords in your headline, adding a head... Utkarsh Narang (23:32.581) Hmm. Rosie Chong (23:52.27) header image, making sure that your cover, so your profile image is up to date and not put on private or whatnot. So it's going that time. The other part of that is maybe spending some time researching as well. I love getting to consume other people's content because it helps me feel inspired with my own, helps me understand what's working on the platform. What are people talking about? What could you talk about that's not already out there? It's great for networking. So. Utkarsh Narang (24:01.36) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (24:16.624) Mm. Rosie Chong (24:21.56) That's definitely the first one is just taking the time to familiarize yourself, learn, digest, update, amend, whatever you need to do. The second is know that your definition of success is going to look different to a lot of the people you're comparing yourself to. So you need to just not worry about, what are other people doing to have 20,000 followers, 100,000 followers, people who have been doing this for four years. Don't compare yourself to them. Utkarsh Narang (24:28.59) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (24:42.96) you Rosie Chong (24:48.442) Instead use them as inspiration. Use them as your motivation. Oh how do I get to that goal? How do I do this? How do I achieve what they're doing? Rather than, oh no I only got two lakhs not 200. Everyone starts at zero. Quite literally. So just starting you're doing so much more than 95 % of other people are doing. So that's my second one. The third one would be the more you do it the better you get. So no one's going to be great at sharing their first post, maybe not even your first 10 posts, maybe not even your first 30, you might not feel like you know what you're doing, you might not feel confident, you might not have found the right way to find your voice or even the format of content that you're sharing, but the more you do it, the easier it gets. So even if you feel awkward or weird or embarrassed, don't worry about it because at the end of the day, LinkedIn is actually a really positive place with a lot of very supportive cheerleaders essentially and people who are here to help you up. So just try because You don't know where it can open, what door it could open or where it could lead you if you just don't do anything. Utkarsh Narang (25:53.616) Yeah. Yeah. I think I love your, your advice here because sometimes people get very impatient with it. And I think that's the recipe for disaster because you then want the outcome that someone else is getting. And that's never the right thing to do comparison. think let alone on social media, but in life itself can, can, can ruin someone's, mind space and, and yeah, research, other's content. think this is, this is all valuable. think what I'm also kind of connecting this back to Rosie is that what he just set up. Rosie Chong (26:15.002) Mm. Utkarsh Narang (26:23.108) few minutes ago, which was to almost achieve that freedom, right? That's where social media, that, that why for you was very clear that, that aspiration of becoming the actor of touching lives, of sharing content and building that we can call that fan base of, don't like the words fan base and followers as you were saying, but I think that's what social media at the end of the day means. so love that. Any stories that you feel in terms of your interactions with people on, LinkedIn? Rosie Chong (26:41.242) Mm. Utkarsh Narang (26:52.196) that like stood out, that became really human for you just beyond the networking that happens on the platform. Rosie Chong (26:58.734) There, I don't know. This starts as a not positive story, but it ends pretty positively. So I remember sharing a post three years ago and it was at a time where a lot of women specifically or people who identified as female were getting unsolicited DMs, inappropriate comments on their body on, hey, marry me, go on a date with me. And so there was a big wave of content. A lot of from myself and from other female creators of, LinkedIn's not a dating platform. Stop hitting on me. Stop making comments on my body. And I made a post about it. The post ended up on the wrong side of the internet, got absolutely slanted, hated, never had so many hate comments in my life. People commenting on my body, saying inappropriate comments, saying I was an attention seeker, all of these awful things. And I remember so vividly at the time sitting in bed at one in the morning. refreshing and refreshing and new comments always coming through and deleting and questioning my self-worth based on what some strangers were saying. And I had a group of friends or people I'm still in touch with in my network on LinkedIn who were commenting for me in response to the hate comments saying, that's inappropriate. Why would you do that? How dare you tagging their workplaces and people who were standing up for me that I'd never met in person. And it... I think it was after that post where my thick skin came in and my concept of, it doesn't matter what other people think. That was my big turning moment. although it's not necessarily one specific person or one interaction or a person who changed my life, it was this community I had met on LinkedIn of fellow creators, a lot of them international from the UK, America, Canada, that were defending some stranger, me, like they had never met. Utkarsh Narang (28:26.384) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (28:41.029) Hmm. Rosie Chong (28:47.266) because they're just genuinely good people. And that was one of the biggest moments I thought, it's not just randoms on the internet at a networking event or something. It's, these are friends. These are good people. And yeah, that's why I love LinkedIn so much. Utkarsh Narang (28:59.364) Yeah. It was beautiful. People standing up for you and it shows the power of the collective, but it's, it's fascinating how the right intention could also fall on the rights on the wrong side for the internet and can go places. another one of those words that I think, kind of plays on my mind when I'm thinking of my social media presence is this word authenticity that I want to be someone who I am on social media, but sometimes it feels It's almost like you have to filter yourself a little bit because if you be completely honest, then these comments sometimes can get through that thick skin. Where do you see those lines blur between being who you are on social media versus holding on a little bit? Rosie Chong (29:47.022) I think you can still be private while being authentic. And I think when I strip back to thinking of other social platforms and not just specifically LinkedIn, there's this idea, especially with relationships, that, you have to have a very public relationship or you have to share everything. And if you don't, then you don't have the perfect relationship. I think it's something I've struggled with. My partner is not on social media and I'm very prominent on social. So trying to find that balance in my relationship online has been interesting, but... Utkarsh Narang (30:11.024) Hmm. Rosie Chong (30:15.193) I think it's the same idea on LinkedIn is that you don't have to share everything about you. And if you're keeping some things private, it doesn't mean you're being dishonest. It doesn't mean you're being inauthentic. You can still be yourself, but you can choose the different aspects that you talk about or the different parts of your life. I don't talk about my wedding or my outfits on my LinkedIn, but I share a lot of that on my TikTok and my Instagram. And it doesn't mean that I'm being inauthentic on LinkedIn. It just means I know what I'm curating in intentionally with my content for what I want to be known for. I'm still sharing my tips, my experience, my journey, my highs and lows, my tone of voice, my face. And that to me is the essence of authenticity is all of that bundles up parts of you in who you are in line rather than. hiding behind a post that was written by AI or telling a story that's actually copied and pasted from someone else or faking clients. All of that is the definition of being inauthentic. So you can be authentic, but it doesn't have to, it's not all or nothing. I don't give all or nothing. There's some of the biggest creators on LinkedIn who I know don't give all or nothing. They give a certain chunk and it doesn't have to be more than that. I think it's interesting when, Utkarsh Narang (31:07.951) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (31:20.08) Mmm. Rosie Chong (31:30.5) We're kind of going this idea of like the relationship we have with celebrities and influences that we expect as a person. they have to give us everything. And they think about when a celebrity couple breaks up or divorces or an influencer and you're like, why tell us why? Well, if you were sitting down at a coffee shop and a stranger came up to you and asked you why you got divorced, you're not going to tell them. So why should you do that? And it's that same concept as a creator online on LinkedIn is that I don't have to share. Utkarsh Narang (31:45.808) you Rosie Chong (31:59.383) everything and that's okay. Utkarsh Narang (32:00.496) Yeah, yeah, I love the statement. You can be private and still be authentic. think that that's a very powerful statement. One thing again comes back to mind and the podcast almost like is an extension of me trying to soundboard my thoughts with someone who's an expert. So I'd love to see how you feel about that. One thing that I feel over the last four or five years, I think post pandemic, I've seen So many coaches emerge and including me, so many coaches emerge on social media, right? And then some of them are extremely credible who've been doing beautiful work, but some of them are really new. And part of me sometimes gets, I would not use the word angry, but aggravated in a way that I know that this person is not authentic. And I know this person that I've met them in person, they're not the same person as they're showing up on social media. How do you feel? How do you manage that? And how do you feel about that? Rosie Chong (32:43.995) huh. Rosie Chong (32:55.578) I hate it. In terms of how I manage it, I feel like there's no perfect way. I can be pretty gullible and I feel like I sometimes have a pretty bad read on people where I think they are very genuine or they really have great intentions and I'm just getting strung along and they actually just want something from me or they're not here to, you know, have it as a two-way street. So I'm probably not the best person to ask how to manage it. I always just take it case by case and if someone goes... Utkarsh Narang (33:16.496) Hmm. Rosie Chong (33:20.282) too far or think they're being inappropriate or not themselves, I try and call it out, but I'm not great at it, for sure. So I don't love it. I think there's a lot of bullshit on the internet, a lot of bullshit on LinkedIn and I find it exhausting that sometimes I just have to block people. I have to step away from the platform. I have to take time for myself. your whole life shouldn't be online. It's unhealthy. But I think it's just being... Utkarsh Narang (33:27.258) Mm. Mm. Utkarsh Narang (33:31.47) Yeah. Rosie Chong (33:49.85) aware enough that if like trusting your God, if a message seems a little dodgy or if a deal feels too good to be true, maybe it is. And it's okay to feel have your God up a little bit. It's okay to take precautions because the end of the day, you still have to put yourself first. Utkarsh Narang (33:58.288) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (34:06.456) Love that. Put yourself first. And I think that awareness also definitely helps. I have a friend who's very good at dealing with bullshit and he, whenever he sees that there's fire on a building, he rams into it. I run away from it. He rams into it. so I put him forward. Yeah. I also run, run the other way. You spoke about burnout and I don't know if that connects back to social media and how you were approaching your brand slash slash things, but can you speak a little bit more on that? Like, what do you think? Rosie Chong (34:20.41) We're going the other way. That's for sure. Utkarsh Narang (34:35.724) led to that burnout and how did that feel? Rosie Chong (34:38.659) I struggle with burnout like probably at least once a year and it's always somewhere between September and November. It's right at the end of the year, just before Christmas. And every year I tell myself, I'm going to be better, I'm going to have more balance and then I never do. And I think a lot of it stems from my personality that I'm big people, please, I suck at saying no. And I just love to give and I have FOMO so I never want to miss out on something. So. The first couple years I struggled with burnout was very much I was just doing too much. I was working full time, I was working with brands, I was doing five posts a day, sorry, five posts a week for LinkedIn. I was doing a lot, I was spending hours a day on LinkedIn plus full time work. I was just doing too much and it just felt like I'd had all of the creativity zapped out of me and nothing was bringing joy in my life. Everything was hard, it was a chore, it just felt laborious and exhausting. Utkarsh Narang (35:26.0) you Rosie Chong (35:32.698) I think each time I've struggled with burnout since, the biggest one I struggled with was definitely about 2021. Ever since then, felt it not as bad, but it's always the same combination of things. It's I'm spending too much time socializing, but also working, but also freelancing and creating content, consuming content. I'm not sleeping enough. I'm not exercising enough. And it all just spirals because I haven't had time to recharge, essentially. Utkarsh Narang (36:02.202) I need to take a deep breath. was a, wow, that was a lot, a lot happened there. I think we've all, we've all been there, Rosie, because, know, part of us, and I'll say for myself, part of me starts to feel when I'm doing too much that that would lead to the outcome or the success that I'm hoping and wishing for. And so since we've launched the podcast, we'll be releasing our third episode tomorrow. And I see myself, but I see myself going on to the YouTube studio platform. Rosie Chong (36:05.146) It's a lot. Rosie Chong (36:26.234) Morning! Utkarsh Narang (36:31.376) and refreshing when will the next subscriber coming and then I start to also become aware that that's unhealthy because you're not going to get violent two weeks and if you do then then it'll happen on its own. can only put out good content in the world but it is so hard to stop yourself because you're wanting to see that success. so I understand that. But one promise that I made for myself and this happened so we moved as a family to Australia 20 months 22 months ago now. Rosie Chong (36:40.41) Hmm. Rosie Chong (36:50.447) totally. Utkarsh Narang (37:00.188) which is very recent still feels. But since being here, my sleep and my exercise are the two things that I've not compromised on anything. That's really helped. That's really helped. Rosie Chong (37:08.356) I love that. Having that balance is so important. And one of the things I'd said to myself last year, which by the end of the year, I was not doing a good job at, but was trying to set more boundaries. It was trying to have healthier boundaries between work and life, between saying no to social events or checking out when I needed to. I've got better at it, but I... Utkarsh Narang (37:21.295) Mmm. Rosie Chong (37:31.226) I still know it's kind of a running joke in my friendship group that if someone wants to make plans with me they have to book me out at least four weeks ahead because my calendar is so hectic and it's not been a great start to the year in terms of balancing my calendar but we're working on it. Utkarsh Narang (37:45.296) Hmm. We'll have, you and I will have an offline conversation on that. But I think at the end of the day, A, balance looks different for everyone. And we all are in pursuit of that balance. So I think, yeah, that's something that we'll kind of keep moving forward on. And then, yeah, each year we're trying to build ourselves to that next level. So hopefully this year the burnout might not come. You never know. What's, crossed, what's emerging for Rosie in 2025? Rosie Chong (38:11.482) true. Let's hope. Rosie Chong (38:18.282) I'm trying to plan a wedding, so that's one thing. Thank you, which is very exciting. The other big things, I'm working on a secret project that I'm not gonna say because if I say it and it doesn't happen, I'll be disappointed in myself. But that's slowly happening in the background, hopefully. It's related to personal branding, that's all I'm gonna say. And I'm trying to... Utkarsh Narang (38:21.456) Congratulations. Utkarsh Narang (38:37.828) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Rosie Chong (38:44.858) basically build out more of my own clients finally. It's been about three years. A lot of people thought I don't work full time anymore or even work, which is really interesting. But I up until December of 2024, I was still working full time. And so this year I am taking a step back from full time work so I can try being my own boss on site, getting clients, working more with brands. And that's as far as I was ready to go. going into part-time work rather than completely quitting full-time work. I just knew financially that was not the right move for myself. So 2025 is the year of experimentation with putting more time and investment into LinkedIn and personal branding and working with brands and content and trying to pursue, I guess, again, that very non-traditional path that's not just the corporate rat race. Cause I realized that that was just not bringing me. Utkarsh Narang (39:24.592) Mm. Rosie Chong (39:38.35) joy working 40 hours a week in something that I wasn't that I liked doing, but I just, I just knew that there was something more. And when you talk about to someone, what do what you love and you'll never spend a day working or whatever the saying is. I was realizing that I love the career in social media, but my passion is so much in getting to create content for myself and then personal branding. those two and having more time for that is very exciting. So that's the 20, 25 girls. Utkarsh Narang (39:59.992) Hmm. Amazing. Maybe this is the right platform for you to reveal that secret because then the universe and all of us will conspire to make that happen. Rosie Chong (40:15.854) Just between us, I'm trying to write a book. Utkarsh Narang (40:19.458) Amazing. So this is on YouTube now. Amazing. We'll talk about that offline because that's something that is on a Google Doc for me as well. Maybe we'll complete and launch ours together. Finally, a few decades from now, Rosie, there'll be a moment when you'll be 85 years old and you look still 25. So you're 85 years old and that 85 year old, Rosie looks back. What advice would she have for you right now? Rosie Chong (40:27.13) You Rosie Chong (40:40.73) stunning. Rosie Chong (40:48.25) I think that she would have the advice to don't doubt yourself so much and just give it a try because the worst can happen is someone says no or maybe you just don't get it right the first time so you can try it in a different way. I think that is going to be the biggest thing because I know how much that's held me back personally for so long of this fear, anxiety and doubt. So I feel like 85 year old me would say just try it because you can't even imagine where it could lead to. Again, wholesome. Utkarsh Narang (41:17.754) wholesome. We started the conversation on profound, positive and wholesome, and we are ending it on wholesome as well. It's been a pleasure to have you and this phrase, just try it. think you're taking that Nike slogan to the next level for yourself. So just try it. I'm pretty sure beautiful things are happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That'll be your first client. You can reach out to them. Rosie Chong (41:24.055) book ended. Rosie Chong (41:35.812) or the Nike sponsorship now. Rosie Chong (41:42.159) nice Utkarsh Narang (41:42.902) Amazing. Thank you for the conversation, Rosie. Truly appreciate it. I'm pretty sure listeners had a great time and they got a lot to learn. For all the pearls of wisdom that Rosie had, you want to go back and check the episode again. If you're on YouTube, like, share and subscribe. And if you're on any other podcast platforms, then leave us a comment and share this with others. Thanks, Rosie, for the hour. And we truly appreciate you for being here. Rosie Chong (42:03.16) Thank you for having me.