Utkarsh Narang (00:01.1) Welcome to another episode of the Ignite Neurons Podcast. Today I have someone who's an Iron Man, who's written a book, released her podcast, released her... Let me do it again. Why did I say podcast? Welcome to another episode of the Ignite Neurons podcast. Today I have someone very special from the other side of the world, the United States. And what she's done is she's done an Ironman. She's battled a disease, a tumor in her brain and an epically so when you'll hear about her. She's written a book. She's given a beautiful TEDx, which I had the pleasure of listening to just before, moments before we recorded this podcast. And I'm looking forward to what you will learn through this experience because There's some deep wisdom when you bike 1800 kilometers from Canada to Mexico. Welcome Riza, how are you? Risa August (00:52.518) I'm so grateful to be here. Thank you for having me. Utkarsh Narang (00:56.726) It's such a joy. And I sometimes feel like, I don't know how, but this idea of reaching out to guests and we do it like, there's no method in science to it, right? We just reach out and I just wonder always that the person on the other side has such a deep conversation to offer Riza that I feel it's such a privilege to be on the podcast. Risa August (01:16.877) Yes, I agree. Thank you. Yes. Utkarsh Narang (01:20.11) Absolutely. And the journey that we begin on the podcast is that we start from the very beginning. And so the first question that kind of sets up the rhythm for us is, if that eight-year-old Risa, wherever that Risa was growing up, as that little kid, dreams or challenges or opportunities, if that eight-year-old were to come and meet you right now, what kind of conversation would emerge, Risa? Risa August (01:48.743) gosh. And so. Yes, so I, gosh, there's so many things. Because there's so many parts of me, you know, there's the part of me of like, woohoo, you did it. Like you did it. Like look at everything you've accomplished and put your mind to and set out to do, you accomplished it. And there's that overachiever part of me that sneaks in a little and is like, you should have done more. You know, you remember all those times you wanted to travel or take that risk or take that chance? You should have done it. And I'm actually faced with a decision I'm having a hard time making right now. And it's not like this life shattering decision, but it's, you know, there's finances involved and such. And I'm like, I feel nervous about... It's something I really want to do, but I feel nervous about spending the money on it. And it's like, but wait a minute, what is this going to get me? Like what? So yeah. Utkarsh Narang (03:08.046) It's an interesting space. I always wonder how, and I find this a difficult question for myself to kind of answer, right? Eight year old, that's like many moons ago. But what do you think were certain early influences, experiences that shaped up, and we learn more about you, that shaped you up to be this resilient, this go-getter? And I remember you'll share with us also, like sitting on that couch in your gray sweats to be registering for. 1800 km bike ride, what experiences shaped you up? Risa August (03:44.629) Well, again, you know, I call her old Rissa. She was the overachiever and it all started with someone saying, you should try a triathlon, you know, and so I tried a short distance, a sprint distance triathlon. But that was, and I tried it and I loved it. And then that wasn't enough to me. So I had to do a longer one and a longer one. And then I worked my way up to an Ironman race. And then I started doing endurance cycling events. suddenly I'm this endurance athlete. And then when I was diagnosed with a pituitary tumor, a tumor at the base of my brain, and a very destructive disease called acromegaly, I was all of a sudden faced with, yeah, you're never gonna do that again. Like, you're not gonna be able to. And so there was this exact moment where post brain surgery and radiation treatment where I was coming to terms with, my gosh, I'm never gonna be the same again. And... I was so focused on like, well then who am I? Like, who am I if I'm not this overachiever and this Ironman athlete and doing all these outstanding things? And I remember being so focused on what I couldn't do that I just finally shifted and I was like, wait a minute, what can I do? And I said, well, I know what I need to do. I need to start looking at my life differently and I need to start. all those things I had on my bucket list, I need to start revisiting those. You know, those things that you put off, like I'll do that someday. And one of those was riding my bike across country. And so on that same day, that same day where I decided this is no way to live, you know, I feel like I'll die. If I sit on this couch one more day, I feel like I'll die. I, I, Risa August (06:07.629) I, that moment decided to live and that was the day I signed up for a 1,845 mile bicycle journey from Canada to Mexico. And I had no idea how I was gonna do that. I couldn't even barely get off the couch, but I knew I had to start somewhere. Utkarsh Narang (06:28.397) Hmm. As you're sharing this, know, you're making it look very easy. You're saying, I was sitting on that couch in my gray sweats and then I thought I have to start somewhere. I want to live again. And you sign up for this. And there are so many threads I could pick from that conversation. Let's go to that moment when. And I cannot fathom like when you're told that you have a tumor in your brain, you have this rare condition called acromegaly. Risa August (06:34.285) It's... Utkarsh Narang (06:58.101) If there was a fly on the wall on that day when you were told that when your scans came out and you're sitting with the doctor and they're saying this, what would I see and hear? Because yeah, what would I hear and see? Risa August (07:11.415) Well, I remember it took about seven years to get diagnosed. From the time I started noticing something was off in my body. were just seven years. Yeah. And I, you know, I was an athlete, so I was very in tune with my body. I took care of myself. And there were things I just couldn't explain. And doctors kept Utkarsh Narang (07:23.117) Seven years? Did you say seven years? Risa August (07:41.069) telling me, you know, we're not worried. I'm not worried. I'm not, you know, your blood works fine. You're, you're an athlete. Don't know. So, but it, got to a point where, you know, headaches were so severe, it was, it was impossible to ignore. I forget what the question is. I'm so sorry. Utkarsh Narang (08:06.19) What I was asking was that that moment when in seven years is such a long journey to be not knowing what's wrong. That moment when someone told you like the doctor told you that you have a tumor in your pituitary and lower part of your brain. Take me to that moment. What did that feel to you? Risa August (08:12.119) Mm-hmm. Risa August (08:24.151) Yes, this was an incredible moment. It was a moment of validation. I remember thinking, and I'm pretty sure I used a swear word, but I remember saying I knew it. And so in that moment, that's really all that mattered to me. And my old mindset of, well, I do things on my schedule. I'm in full control. I'm very rigid in my life. Like, I just thought I would, okay, well, let's get this taken care of so I can get back to my life. And it wasn't until, I'd say about three months later. when we discovered that they didn't get the entire tumor out and the remaining tumor was inoperable, that's when I started to realize, my gosh, I'm not ever gonna function the same again. And so I'd say on that day in the doctor's office, maybe a little bit of cockiness. I'm way more humble now. Utkarsh Narang (09:34.447) Wow, a moment of validation. yeah, I can imagine that you know something's not right, but no one's able to find out what's not right. And then when it happens and you're like, I knew it, was something wrong. I can imagine that moment. you said, that put you on that reflection, right? Where you said, I'm never going to be the same again. And then this question of who am I? How did you go about answering that question? Because that's a journey in itself. Risa August (10:06.093) Yes. And it definitely wasn't easy. It was a process. And one that is still unfolding. mean, it's been almost seven years since that diagnosis and surgery and the upheaval, I call it. I had to grieve the old... parts of me. I had to let go. had to get to that point of acceptance of, I'm no longer going to be that person. Which at the time, I didn't know this at the time, but looking back, I'm like, well, that ain't such a bad thing because she wasn't all that great. Utkarsh Narang (11:01.102) You Risa August (11:05.645) you know, I like me much better now. But so I had to grieve. I had to allow myself to go through the process. And and you know, that part of me that's still the overachiever or wants to do everything perfectly or wants to do everything for everyone else, she still shows up. But but I also had to start standing up for myself of like, hey, you know what? I'm not doing OK. and I can't do it all, and I can't fix your problems and mine, and I'm not gonna be able to do another Iron Man or throw big lavish parties or, you know, I'm just, I had to almost stop caring what other people expected of me and the role that they were used to me being in. And you know, that was hard, because I got a lot of acknowledgement and affirmation from being in that role. And so that was, yeah, that was challenging. then, you know, I had 14 months to get back on my bike and get to that Canadian and U.S. border. I had 14 months to figure out how that was going to happen. And it didn't start with getting back on my bike. I just had to get off that couch. That was the first thing I had to do. And then I was in wearing these gray sweatpants, they were just faded and tattered and wearing out in the knees and I had to get, I always joke about the gray sweatpants and I had to get changed out of those and put clothes on and then, you know, and then I walked to my mailbox for the first time, which was a big deal and then I actually started painting. I started painting. I needed somewhere to focus my mind, like a mindfulness practice. And then I started selling art around the world. don't even consider myself an artist, but it was just this step-by-step process. And literally in the moment, like what can I do right now? Because I certainly can't get on my bike and ride 1,800 miles, that's for sure. Risa August (13:29.837) So what can I do right now? Utkarsh Narang (13:33.071) Let's build this step by step process because I want our listeners to really feel that when you start a journey that might transform you, it is not as clear as it seems when you're in the middle or towards the advanced stages of the journey. Let's not even call it the end stages because the end never comes. It's ongoing as you were saying. And what I loved what you said about just now is like, I think to all our listeners, Grieve that old part and let that old part go. If you feel that there is a need to change and shift and, and be someone else, it's absolutely okay to make that choice and no one should be able to stop you. And we'll also share with them, yet, but towards the end, what did you do with those gray sweatpants? Because I'd love to have you share that story what happened. So here's where I'm at, right? You're on your couch and you feel you can't do anything. Risa August (14:23.219) Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (14:32.962) For you, it happened in a light bulb moment where you moved from the can to the can and you said, I can do something. But for someone who's right now in that state, Risa, who's saying that I don't have any control. Life's there too many things in life. My environment is too challenging. I am in a full time job. I'm in a startup. I have my startup and I cannot change anything about my life, whatever that looks like. Right. And I'm just putting it out there. For that person, how do they get to the light bulb moment? Risa August (15:07.069) Hmm. Well, I love that we're talking about this. It wasn't like a light switch. Like it took me six months. It took me six months to get there. You know, but I allowed myself each day to make a choice. I allowed myself, okay, maybe tomorrow. Maybe tomorrow's the day I'll get out of these sweatpants or get off the couch or... Utkarsh Narang (15:15.342) Hmm. Risa August (15:36.901) So allowed myself that space to cry, grieve, be angry, whatever it was. then when I made the decision, the light bulb moment was, I knew, and you're gonna love this, I needed to reignite my inner spark. I needed something to, I got the goosebumps. And so I knew, I knew if I set this goal, like that was gonna do it. Like that was gonna reignite it. And so, you know, no turning back at that point. Like I was all in and it was not smooth. It was not easy. There were times I questioned and doubted and I just kept simplifying and coming back to the moment. And also keeping my heart, I don't wanna say my eye, my heart on that goal, that spark, that igniter of, know, that's what kept me going. Utkarsh Narang (16:49.102) It's a very intense state, what you're describing. I've felt that way and so I can relate very strongly to it. Because when you put your heart onto something, it's like no one will understand what you're going through in a way. And they can try to and I think we all have our support system and we cannot do it alone. But it's just really hard for someone on the outside to really understand how ignited you are within. Risa August (17:15.053) Mm-hmm. Utkarsh Narang (17:17.314) How did that happen for you? how was your environment and you sitting on the couch took that six months registered for the, maybe you've told your friends, family, I don't know. Like how did that, how did they respond to it? Risa August (17:29.837) to my igniter, my... Several people were like, wait, you're doing what? And I think they were kind of like, well, okay. I think they were thinking in terms of, well, shouldn't you be recovering and resting and taking care of yourself? And this felt like I was taking care of myself. Utkarsh Narang (17:32.108) Yes, we are igniter. Risa August (17:58.445) this felt like what I needed to do. And it wasn't necessarily about, you know, I want to speak to those who are listening. It wasn't necessarily about going out and doing 1800 mile bike ride and this big thing. It was more about, I had to heal my soul. And that was kind of going to be the vessel for it. Like if that makes sense. And, you know, and for someone else it might be something different, but it certainly opened me up to other things and how much joy and expansiveness I feel even just going to a farmer's market. It's just really opened me up and so that's something I do want to say is like it doesn't have to be this grand big 1800 mile bike ride. You know, I started taking like different dance classes and you know and I tried like axe throwing and indoor skydiving and all kinds of fun and wild things and anything to keep that spark you know lit and growing essentially. Utkarsh Narang (19:18.818) Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's, it's you creating the foundation, right? Because you said that six months it took, you kept saying tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow. And there are many who would be doing that. That's absolutely okay. I think the foundation is to be okay with whatever state you're in, but have the awareness that you want to change something about it. So I think that's a beautiful foundation on which we will put the next three steps. I've heard the TEDx talk, so I know the three steps. Risa August (19:46.496) yes. Utkarsh Narang (19:47.811) But here's, I think what I really liked and something that you said in your TEDx and I'm kind of bringing that up is that the conversations we have with ourselves, what we tell our subconscious and what we like, how we speak to ourselves in our mind, that impacts a lot of what we will be able to achieve or not. How did that evolve for you? Risa August (20:17.951) Again, I feel like it was a lot of letting go. so I did a lot of counseling and coaching and therapy. And I just allowed myself to be where I was, which old Rissa wouldn't have done that. Because old Rissa was so rigid and like, no, I have to be this strong, incredible person still showing up the way I was. It's almost like you have to re-fire the, you know, or like, how am I trying to frame this? I think you know what I'm trying to say, but it's like you have to just shift everything. You have to, and it's uncomfortable. It's really uncomfortable. But the more you do it, the more you get used to it. Utkarsh Narang (21:16.578) I think it also plays in, and correct me like how you think about this. If you don't agree or agree, I think it's also about like, we're very fearful of uncertainty, right? Because we don't know what's going to happen. We don't know what's going to be going next. And that uncertainty puts us in a space where we're unable to have these conversations ourselves. are, we keep telling ourselves the tomorrow, the tomorrow, the tomorrow does not change because if you change, Risa August (21:28.342) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (21:46.339) then you don't know what the path less travel will look like. You don't know what the road less travel will look like in the future. And so I think that's why we don't shift things easily. And I've done this multiple times and I realize over time when I'm speaking to someone or sharing my journey with them, I feel it becomes the wiring in the brain shifts so much that I feel if I'm not making things uncertain, then I'm not having fun, which also has its own repercussions. But I think that's the shift, right? That you become so comfortable with uncertainty that you feel you got this. Risa August (22:22.853) Yes, yes. And again, I love this. This is right up my alley, because I think it's also about focus and language. I love neuro-linguistic framing and, you know, where are we going to put our focus? we going to, like, what are we going to assign to that uncertainty? Like, gosh, what if it doesn't work out? But then you hear the alternative. What if it does? You know? Utkarsh Narang (22:53.056) love it. I love this question. when you will get a moment to listen to my TEDx, that's what I ask the audience because we can be fearful of the future, but who the hell knows what the future is going to be like. If I don't do anything, the future can be worse. If I do something, the future can be worse. What do I want? Do I want to choose to not do anything about it or do I want to choose to do something about it? And I think that's where the difference is. To anyone who's listening and is with us till now, we've build the foundation where you know how you have these conversations with yourself. You know how to shift the mindset. What we'll hopefully get into next and Risa will guide us is that what does it mean to say I can do it? What does the CC stand for in this? Risa August (23:37.163) Hmm. Yes, well, I, yes, I actually, I, I created a little mantra around the word can and I took each letter from the word can and, and I remember asking myself, cause it's not about like, what can I do? It's, it's more about, okay, what am I capable and able to do right now? And so I took the word can and I said, huh, capable, able, now. What am I capable and able to do right now in this moment? And that changed everything for me because we can't skip all the middle stuff to get to the end thing, right? so I truly had to simplify my life as much as possible. to keep working toward, well, living. Because that's what I decided to do on the couch that day. It was like, I decided to live. And what did that mean for me? Well, part of that was checking off all those things on my bucket list. But the first letter C is capable. And you start with asking yourself, what am I capable of? right in this moment, you know, what can I, what am I capable of? Even if it's something small. And I remember some days for me it was, well, I can brush my teeth. I can get out of bed and brush my teeth this morning. And that's where I started. Utkarsh Narang (25:22.126) That's, it chunks down the journey, right? You don't have to climb Mount Everest on day one. You can just maybe climb the stairs in your house. And that's one step. And let's maybe take a, I know our stories have, can show the can acronym really well, but let's take a hypothetical example. Let's take someone who's maybe 37 years old or yeah, 30. Risa August (25:26.797) Yes. Utkarsh Narang (25:51.343) 30 or 30 in their 30s and and they are in a job in a career that they love but they want to change to something that they've always dreamt of and I think that puts a lot of pressure on that person because it makes them feel like oh I have to do so much I have to do so much so in that moment what do think they're capable of Freesa? Risa August (26:03.789) Mmm. Risa August (26:11.159) Mm-hmm. Risa August (26:17.611) Ooh, again, I feel like it's going back to that spark. know, what is it they want to change to? I have a great example of one of my clients, you know, being in a high career position and she wanted to be a chef. And I think a lot of times we think it has to be all or nothing, right? And so it was her kind of Utkarsh Narang (26:41.838) Hmm. Risa August (26:47.511) thinking about, okay, what do I value about my current job? Like, what do I want to keep? And then what do I want to let go of? And then looking at, you know, the things that she loved, her passion, which was cooking and, and okay, how can I incorporate that? Like, how can I, you know, join them happily together? I guess I'm struggling with words today, but so So it doesn't have to be all or nothing and you don't have to figure it out right in the moment. So again, go to that spark. Like what is it? Like what is it that's gonna light you up and how can that fit into your life? Utkarsh Narang (27:32.217) Yeah, love it. And find a way to marry those things together because I love that example we should just go with. So a very senior person wants to become a chef, but finds it really hard. And so it's not an all or nothing space. I think that's a cognitive distortion that the brain pushes you into. I think it's better to say, how can I marry the two? maybe you can, and you can join cooking classes. You can start to cook over the weekends. You can start to... Risa August (27:36.386) Mm-hmm. Utkarsh Narang (27:59.309) do something in your workplace. And so many small little steps can be done, which will help you to evolve and be where you want to do. And I think what Risa is saying, which I love, ignite your spark, is because unless you have that larger reason to do something, Risa, I don't think you'll go on that journey because that journey is really hard and uncomfortable. Yeah, yeah, I love it. We then move to step two, which is able. What does that mean? Risa August (28:23.885) Yes, so what are you able to do? And there's a difference between capable and able. Able is like your ability. And so even in hard moments, you're able to do something. Even if you're like, like I had moments where I'm like, I just want to cry. So I'd let myself cry. It was just like, what am I able to do? you know, what is realistic? So if we're talking about, say, going back to the example of the job and the career change, okay, well, like, what are my finances like? Like, you know, what's possible? Like, can I just quit my job and start a new career? You know, so it's almost like what's realistic, right? And so that's where the able comes in. It's like, okay, what's the reality here? Utkarsh Narang (29:27.854) Yeah. Yeah. And I think I want to also call out like, and we've done 40 episodes and as soon as you said that some days you want to cry and just cry, I was taken back to my first guest and she said that she was trying to become a coach and she's a world famous coach now. There were days when she would just go to the gym and cry because it felt really hard to go on that journey. And so what I want us to really feel to all our listeners and to ourselves, journey is really messy and the pressure that we feel when we look at LinkedIn, when you look at Instagram, when you look at TikToks and when you look at YouTube of the world is that, this person figured it out but it is still very messy for them. If you feel that, Utkash has an amazing podcast, he's so lucky, there is a lot of messy background that you don't know of. A few weeks ago we did not have a guest that week and we do not have an episode that week. And then out of the blue, someone reached out saying, Utkash, can we have this conversation? And that ended up being the episode that week. So I think in the background, we all have messy lives. No one speaks openly about them on social media. And that's what feels like everyone's perfect. We're not. We're not. Risa August (30:47.943) I can attest to that. Utkarsh Narang (30:50.55) Yeah, love it. So what you're capable of and there's a difference between what you're capable and what you're able to do. And then we move to this final word, which is now. What does that stand for? Risa August (31:03.565) Well, all we have is now. What are you waiting for? Take that first step, right? You know, we talk about some day, some day, but that never arrives. never comes. Some day never comes, never shows up. So what can you do right now in the moment? Utkarsh Narang (31:29.782) write that email, call that friend, send that cold link message, reach out to whoever you want to reach out to. And still, I think there'll always be a right time, Risa, for everything. then going back to an example that, so I was trying to, so I started Ignite Neurons, Risa, just for context, about five years ago. And I always wanted, like, I want to give a TEDx talk because I have a story to share and I want to be on that Terek stage and share that story. And so I did not wait for the someday syndrome. I started to send emails to people. I started to reach out to Terek's for three years. Nothing happened, Risa. No one responded or they said with question, no, not right now, or the company is too much, or this is not the process, or this is not the subject and this and that. And then I said, okay, it'll happen at the right time, but I'll continue to do what I can. And then I saw someone's post on LinkedIn saying that they had applied for a TEDx. I said, okay, let me try. Let me apply for it as well. And with non-attachment to the outcome, but did my best to apply and ended up delivering the TEDx for that. So I think that someday syndrome is a very intricate balance. How did you manage it through your journey, Risa? Risa August (32:47.853) Gosh, well, I'm still managing it. I'm not the perfect, like I don't perfectly live by the seat of my pants or as dreamy as that may sound. You know, I still like to plan and have my ducks in a row, but I live more fully and spontaneously than I used to. And I still challenge myself on things. Utkarsh Narang (32:50.348) I love that. I love that. Risa August (33:16.701) you know, I feel like we grow so much from challenging ourselves. I do like, I don't wait for someone to give me permission or for someone to go with or do something with or like, you know, I make the decision and even if it feels like it might be hard, I just go for it. To me, experiences are experiences. There's no bad experiences. I have a great story about this where I rode my bike across northern Spain and every facet from start to finish, it was a 17-day solo bike journey and it felt nearly impossible at times. It challenged me on every level, not just physically but the food, the language, the logistics of the trip and a lot of people say, oh gosh, are you sorry you went? And I'm like, no way. I would never trade that experience. I learned so much about myself. mean, an experience is an experience. I don't let the what ifs, you know. Hold me back. Utkarsh Narang (34:47.416) so beautiful. It just relieves the pressure, right? That an experience is an experience. You don't have to label it bad or good or great or not so great. It's just an experience. Love it. Love it. So for those who are listening to us, always think of what you can do and not what you can't do. And so what you're capable of, what you're able to do. And now that's all you have, the present moment. Risa August (34:58.357) Yes. Utkarsh Narang (35:16.63) As we go through this journey Risa, a few decades later, there'll be this beautiful 80 year old Risa. Imagine that Risa comes back to you right now and gives you one piece of advice. What would that be? Risa August (35:35.117) Hmm. Risa August (35:42.765) She would say, do it anyways. Just do it anyways. I had a mentor who, you know, I'd get all in my head and worried and stressed about things. And she'd say, she's this lovely, lovely older woman actually in her eighties. And she would say to me, well Rissa, you can't get it wrong. so you may as well have a nice day. And I was like, it just gave me such perspective of like, yeah, whether I decide to do this or that, like, how do we even know, how do we know what's right or wrong or the best or worst decision, you know, as far as we're concerned. And so it just helped me get out of my head and worry less about. you know, of the possible what ifs and focus more on just do it anyways, just do it. You won't know until you do. Utkarsh Narang (36:51.5) Love it. Yeah, love that mantra. think again to to everyone who listened, Rissa and I have different journeys. We're still trying to figure them out. We are doing what we can to live more fully and that live more fully looks very different for both Rissa and myself. And it'll look really different for you as well. But what I think you should take away from our conversation today is whatever that one thing is. that will ignite your spark, that will give you joy that if in this moment you've accomplished that and then you die, it's going to be a fulfilling life. Write it down, write it down and then put this scan framework to practice and go for it. Risa August (37:38.679) I love that. Perfect. Utkarsh Narang (37:39.97) What a beautiful conversation, Anrisa. To all those who are listening, if you feel there's a friend or a colleague who would enjoy this conversation, share it to them. I think it'll be really beneficial for you and you can add to our journey. And if you're on YouTube, you've spent about 40, 45 minutes listening to us. So better leave a comment on what stuck for you and what are you going to do anyways. This is the coach Anrisa signing off. Risa August (38:08.493) Thank you.