Utkarsh Narang (00:01.442) We all tell ourselves certain stories and sometimes that stories don't liberate us but captivate us. Today's guest is going to help us live kinder lives, be kinder to ourselves and through that process liberate ourselves because it's important for the stories and the narratives that we tell ourselves should be allowing us to be free spirits rather than be captivated by them. And your next adventure, my friend, if you're listening to the podcast today, begins inside you and not outside you. Welcome to another episode of the Ignite Neurons Podcast and I'm overjoyed today to have Mete joining me from the other side of the world, the European continent. How are you, Mete? Mette Reebirk (00:42.821) I'm fine, thank you. It's very early here. So, and I've been looking forward to this little adventure with you. Utkarsh Narang (00:52.812) Love it, love it how you frame it as an adventure. the adventure, like the audience who we have, and I've shared this with you before as well, is somewhere in the age group of 25 to 45, who are doing beautiful things with their life, but they feel like something's not working, something that, and that could be the inner story or the outer, we'll figure that out. But these stories often start from very early in the childhood. And so the first question that we ask our guests, and we frame the conversation on the podcast is that, If that 8 year old Mete, that little girl growing wherever Mete was, if that 8 year old were to come to meet you right now, in your present self, what kind of a conversation do you think will emerge between the two of you? Mette Reebirk (01:35.261) First of all, that could be pretty interesting actually. I think that first of all I would tell her that she's a lovely, unique little one, cutie little one. And then I would ask her about what she's curious about. And also because I know that from my childhood I've always been a very curious little one asking a lot of questions, annoying a lot of grown-ups like know curious George how come why and so on and then I would tell her that the most important exam that she has ever passed and she will ever pass is actually already over and done. and that happened the day she was born. you know, coming here on Earth, that is amazing. It actually shouldn't have, you know, been possible. So this unique experience, being on Earth, on Earth School, allow us to be open, because it's such a... an amazing gift we have been given. to unfold such a gift, need you to be very curious and asking a lot of questions. So I would ask her or allow her to be very curious in her life. And yeah. Utkarsh Narang (03:32.658) That's so beautiful and a couple of themes are really deeply resonant. Curiosity is absolutely a path we could take and you call this earth school. Can you elaborate a little bit more on that? Like, why do you call being born as the biggest exam we've passed? Because it seems like 8.8 billion people have already been born on the planet. And so, so many are already, they've already succeeded is what I'm understanding from you. But can you like double click on this for me? Mette Reebirk (04:04.069) If you know, I have a son and he's studying math and one day I asked him what is the chance of me being born? And then he looked at me and then he said it's almost not existing. So if we see what it takes for, you know, the whole process in my mom meeting my dad and then having, you know, making love. And then, you know, the whole process biologically, is, yeah, you can say that we are so many people on earth, but that I have been born, me, Mette, that is, you know, so many coincidences, so much has to be, you know, put together in a certain way that it's, yeah, incredible. And then going on this little black spot in the universe, so small that it's almost not possible to see from outside of the universe somewhere. That is really incredible. So it can be that you think that you're just one among a lot, but that is not true. not the whole story about you. So feel this uniqueness and this amazing experience that you have been given. Allow you also to be extremely curious. What is everything about? And I like to see it as a school, kind of school. I've always liked to attend school. Utkarsh Narang (05:36.142) you Mette Reebirk (06:02.246) So curious about that. And then also not to be involved with myself. Because if I'm involved with myself, then I cannot really be present and live this amazing experience called life. Utkarsh Narang (06:22.19) I love this how you've reframed it and I never thought of being born as something that the universe has to almost like conspire for me to be born. And that's super helpful because then it also makes me feel like I'm here then with all that's happened because of which I'm here. And so how do I add more meaning to my life? I feel like there's that beautiful responsibility that's also emerging for me. What are your thoughts on that? Mette Reebirk (06:54.481) You know, we are all very busy in trying to find a meaning. But what if the meaning is to breathe? Mette Reebirk (07:05.395) To wake up in the morning, to breathe, to get out of your bed, brush your teeth, have breakfast. What if the meaning is kind of not very complicated? It's living. And be present in living, which we are not really. Either we are in the past or we are in the future. we have very simple where p actually so so what if the reason why we have difficulties finding meaning is that that we are not really present because when we are pressing that is where we actually find meaning Utkarsh Narang (07:55.555) What does that look like? What does that look like for someone to be present and being present in the moment? Mette Reebirk (08:01.491) It doesn't look like anything, but it may feel, you may feel something. I think that it's about feeling, it's about looking for certain feelings. It doesn't look in a very, it should not look like a special way. It's more about how it feels. Mette Reebirk (08:33.675) And be aware. When you get this sense of awareness. Mette Reebirk (08:47.443) And to get this feeling of awareness you need to be curious. What is it that I'm thinking and what is it that I am believing? And even though that it may feel very, you know, I can feel it in my stomach, then what I'm thinking must be true. But what if our body is a kind of... you know like, how do you say that in English? Thermometer. You know when you're sick you need to see if you have fever. What if the body is kind of also a measurement? So when you have, you know, you can feel it, you have difficulties breathing, have, have, it feels not good in your stomach, your body gets tense. What if the body is trying to tell you that what you are thinking about reality? Utkarsh Narang (09:23.992) Yeah. Mette Reebirk (09:48.303) may not be true. But instead, very many, they believe the opposite. They believe that, okay, I can feel it, then it must be true. Utkarsh Narang (09:49.934) you Mette Reebirk (10:00.177) And then they try to look at more that can kind of make their story, they tell themselves even more strong. And then, you know, their body and everything becomes even more tense and maybe by the end they become very sick. It's called stress. So the moment you start to be curious about What I believe in this specific situation, can I be 100 % sure that that is actually valid? Is it true that my boss is screwed up or my family or whatever or that I should have reached more or whatever? 100 % sure? Maybe not 100 % sure. And already at that moment the tense, you will feel it, it will kind of evaporate. And then you get to see that what you believe in certain situations that cause stress in your body is just because you're pulling your own leg. Very innocently. But you are the one scaring life out of you. Utkarsh Narang (11:19.662) you Utkarsh Narang (11:28.046) Hmm. Mette Reebirk (11:28.261) It's not your birth, it's not your family history, it's not whatever. It's you. And at that moment, life becomes a little kinder. And then you can meet whatever, know, reach your plate in a different way. You can look at it in a different way. You don't need to take it personally. Utkarsh Narang (11:35.022) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (11:53.038) Hmm. Mette Reebirk (11:54.483) Does it make sense? Utkarsh Narang (11:56.353) It does, it does, but it's easier said than done, And I'm putting myself in the shoes of a 27-year-old listening to this right now and saying that, Utkash and Mete, what you're saying, maybe I'll agree with it in 15 years from now, but right now it seems that that job that I'm chasing, the title I'm wanting to get to, I'm never going to get there because I'm not good at speaking. I'm not good at raising my voice. I'm not good at asking the right questions. And so... I have all these thoughts throughout the day that are putting me down. And I know Mete, you say that we have thoughts, but we are not our thoughts. But for a 27 year old, it's really hard to get there. So what can you and I think and talk about right now that'll help that 27 year old. Mette Reebirk (12:47.427) make the person curious about what he or she believed to be true. Because what's in front of him? Maybe it's a job where he thinks that the title is not the right and all his friends and his family have a lot of faith in him. But he's not the job. He's not his thought. He's not what other people believe him to be. He's the one on earth making his own experience. And if we believe that we need to be somewhere else, then where we are... Utkarsh Narang (13:20.494) you Utkarsh Narang (13:36.27) Mm-hmm. Mette Reebirk (13:47.131) Regardless of how fast we run, how much we work, we will never reach that spot. Also because sometimes what we believe that we think that others, think that we should. What if that is not true either? You know, a lot of my customers, they are very experienced business people. They have built companies, they have sold them, they have on the paper, very, very successful. But they are not very, they are insecure about this. Have I really been successful? And then when I ask them, why are you, you have everything, what's the problem? And then they tell me, yeah, I'm not so sure if my father is really proud of me. Utkarsh Narang (14:22.52) Right. Mette Reebirk (14:44.487) Okay, and then asked him, if your father is still alive, ask him. And then the next time they come, they tell me, I have had a very good conversation with my dad. And actually he said he's very proud of me and he's very worried about me because he can see that I work too much. I have wife number three and I'm not really present and I have never time to really visit him. Utkarsh Narang (15:14.467) Yeah. Mette Reebirk (15:14.651) or just go out play. He do not want me to be very, you know, have a lot of titles. He want me to be happy. And I have misunderstood that, actually. And you know, we may believe that we're here to make our parents proud. But the best way to make our parents proud is actually a... Utkarsh Narang (15:24.75) Mm. Utkarsh Narang (15:30.478) you Mette Reebirk (15:42.942) to find a way to be happy in our own life. You know, to unfold this amazing life and this amazing coincidence that I have been born. So just like our parents, you know, they have had the same battles, the same, you know, thoughts than we may have. And it can be that you do, you know, only 27. Utkarsh Narang (15:56.248) you Mette Reebirk (16:12.531) I'm 62. I got this inside when I was 40, 45, around. But it's also because we have been brought up to believe that what we are chasing is outside of ourselves. Utkarsh Narang (16:29.858) Yeah. Yeah. Mette Reebirk (16:31.773) You know, it's, you know, education, titles, the right house at the right spot, the Rolex watch, lot of those things. But so, of course, it will take a little time to reframe our mind and our brain, because our brain, you know, our brain doesn't know anything. It guesses the whole time. Utkarsh Narang (17:00.718) Hmm. Hmm. Mette Reebirk (17:02.223) And the brain is very happy if what it puts together is just around 80 % correct. Because then it doesn't need to spend more energy on that. Our brain is all about saving energy. So it's just guessing. But we believe that that must be true. So I really would recommend this young person to be curious, to stop up and then also could stay in this not very nice feeling for a little while to be curious. How come I have this feeling every time I go to work and I have to, you know... Utkarsh Narang (17:40.6) Hmm. Hmm. Mette Reebirk (18:01.363) have a meeting with my boss, I get this feeling. How come? I'm afraid. What is it that I'm afraid of? That I'm not good enough? Okay. Can I be 100 % sure that I'm not good enough? Maybe not. I just got a new client for the business. Okay, that's good. But also because we believe that a lot of what we have, you know, all the stories that we are... putting together, we believe that to define who we are. But we are not our stories. We are like, you know, in a cinema, the screen. Every day they run maybe eight, ten different kinds of film. Some films are very romantic, some less, more film, are funny films. But when the film... Utkarsh Narang (18:35.438) you Mette Reebirk (19:00.517) is finished. The screen is like nothing has happened on the screen. inside, know, this soul, whatever, this is the screen. And whatever lands on our plates, that's the different films. Some of the film we tend to keep onto a little longer than other films. Utkarsh Narang (19:27.822) you Mette Reebirk (19:28.243) And then at a certain time maybe we let go. And my point is that maybe we should let go a little faster of those films that, you know, create too much emotion, stress, not nice feelings. Utkarsh Narang (19:31.726) Mm-hmm. Mette Reebirk (19:52.626) And when we look at it like a more, you know, okay, you know, like an anthropologist looking at a certain thing. Okay, that is really interesting. The feeling is not very nice. Okay, I can also have this kind of feeling. Okay, and that was okay. can see that every time I do this and that, I get this feeling. Okay, without this feeling at the concrete moment. I go and have a meeting with my boss. Then how would I meet him? How would I listen? Okay, actually I can see he looks a little tired. Maybe I would bring an extra cup of coffee. And then I would say, my God, it has been a tough day, hasn't it? yeah. Utkarsh Narang (20:33.23) Mmm. Mette Reebirk (20:44.669) Can I help? I have an extra hour. So when we, because we do not meet the other one where the other one is, we meet the other one through the story we have about the other one. So actually we meet ourselves. Utkarsh Narang (21:03.543) Mm. Mette Reebirk (21:03.929) And when we get to see that, and then, okay, and then when we meet the other one through the story, we have about the other one. And the reaction that we would presume would come, look differently, or may not at all come. Then suddenly we also start to judge. Then we think, okay, that is really not very polite. or he's rude or whatsoever. But it's actually because we have not really been present. We have not met the other one where he or she is. Utkarsh Narang (21:35.651) Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (21:44.675) Yeah, we're meeting our perception of them. Ooh, I love that. We meet ourselves. I love that. Let me, let me, let me dissect this because I think, I think I would recommend our users, listeners to maybe go back about three minutes and listen to this part again, because as I was making notes, what you said was that A, we've been raised to believe that success is all on the outside and it'll take a lot of retraining. Mette Reebirk (21:47.397) Yeah, so actually we meet ourselves. Utkarsh Narang (22:14.292) unlearning and relearning for our brains to understand that that might not be the true story because success is something that is deeper than ourselves. What I love about what you were saying was that our brain knows nothing and it is simply doing the predictive analysis of whatever information it has because it wants to save energy. And then what happens is that we meet others with stories we tell ourselves about them. So we are not meeting them, we're meeting ourselves. And we attach to those stories really deeply and emotionally, which leads to all the stress that we are speaking about. And we judge, and we judge. Mette Reebirk (22:58.077) Yeah, and you know that's actually also okay. But the moment we become aware of it, life seems to change totally. Because then suddenly it's not so scary. And we do not need to be something that we are not. Utkarsh Narang (23:13.4) Yeah, yeah it does. Mette Reebirk (23:27.155) And then we can, you know, handle whatever lands on our plate totally peaceful. And you know, there are so many wars in the world. The world is crazy. We do not need more wars. And it starts with us. It starts with me. When I'm not in war with myself, then there's one less war in the world. And that means that when I meet people, I can meet them peacefully, can help them, can listen to them in a different way. And then the world becomes kinder. My world becomes kinder and the world around me becomes Utkarsh Narang (24:18.414) We need to pause on this one. You said that there is a war going on within ourselves. And if we can be kind to ourselves and we can stop that war, then there's one less war in the world. Mette Reebirk (24:32.162) Mm-hmm. Utkarsh Narang (24:34.978) That's the easiest war to take care of. or maybe is that the easiest war to take care of? The war within. Mette Reebirk (24:46.353) You know it. Utkarsh Narang (24:46.392) Do think it's an easy war to handle? Mette Reebirk (24:50.363) The moment you become aware of it, it's very, very... simple. but you need first to become aware of it. And you know it's also a little annoying actually because suddenly you cannot blame all the others. Mette Reebirk (25:13.011) And so you need to take responsibility for your own well-being. And it doesn't mean that companies and organizations should not be working on their culture. And of course they should, if they're smart. But if it's up to them to make you happy, it's like, you know, people who meet and fall in love and they marry and start families. If they believe that my wife is responsible for making me happy or my husband is responsible for making me happy, they're going to divorce at a certain time because it's not going to happen. But when I know that it's my responsibility to make myself happy and it's not you know, ha ha ha ha the whole time. But it's you know this feeling of calmness meeting the world and meeting my spouse and meeting my kids and my boss. Then it's very simple. Utkarsh Narang (26:20.58) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (26:37.849) Yeah, I love that. Mette Reebirk (26:38.971) It's so simple that some people maybe would say it cannot be, there must be more into that. Because it needs to be more complicated or more complexed. But it isn't. Life in itself, you know, is very, very simple. Utkarsh Narang (27:02.691) Yeah. Yeah. We were complicated. We were complicated. But here's all the time, all the time. But here's the thought, Mehreh. You know, letting go is, think, of the most difficult acts for a human being because we are so, so attached to my job, my story, my life, my thoughts, my spouse, my kids, my podcast. We are so attached even to our pains that I get attached to the pain that I have. Mette Reebirk (27:06.385) the whole time. Utkarsh Narang (27:32.579) How do we start this journal, like this art of releasing, this art of letting go? Mette Reebirk (27:40.308) You and me having this little conversation. Maybe there's someone out there who our words kind of lead into something that he or she understands not only, you know, with his brain, his intelligence, but he sees something or she sees something and starts to say, my... Mette Reebirk (28:09.139) you And from that moment... something has changed. We may not change the whole world, but if we can help one or two to see something differently. And you know, I have been on postcast also where, you know, the theme has been violence in families and insist and, you know... when we believe that we are victims. It can be almost... There's a reason why lot of women, for instance, stay too long in very violent relationships. Because they believe that they are the victims and are supposed to be the victims. And without this kind of identity, who am I? Then I'm even maybe more vulnerable. Mette Reebirk (29:15.985) than with being a victim of a violent husband. But the moment they see that this story, when I let go of it... Mette Reebirk (29:34.16) I can restart, can reframe my life. So the only thing we can lose is actually a story. But it can be very, very difficult to let go of this story that doesn't serve me anymore. Utkarsh Narang (29:44.27) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (29:54.266) Yeah. And curiosity becomes such a critical first step as a pathway to that freedom. And I know you speak a lot about curiosity. If we were to... What's good question to ask if someone were to start their day in the morning where they can feel more curious about their life, this existence? What's a simple question they can ask themselves every single day? Mette Reebirk (30:21.523) Yeah. Mette Reebirk (30:32.371) Maybe it's not a question actually. Maybe it's more... Mette Reebirk (30:42.031) curiosity about the specific moment. For instance when they are out in the bathroom washing their teeth. Then really you know be observe me brushing the teeth. Two minutes, one minute. I don't know how long people are doing that. And try not to think about anything else than just feeling the toothbrush in the mouth with the water and and the smell and the taste. Be present for that little moment or when you are standing in a crush, passing a road, feeling your feet, trying to be curious about being present. And then I think that the good questions, they will just arise themselves. Mette Reebirk (31:44.303) So what is it, you know? Mette Reebirk (31:50.6) You know, a tree is not having a discussion about being a tree with itself. I don't think, least I don't think so. It's just a tree doing what a tree is supposed to do, right? be curious about being a human being with all the function, looking at oneself. And every time we tend to believe that something should look differently than it does. Like, you know, I have my customers, have many of them have been laid off. They have a lot of stories about why they have been laid off. And actually that's not interesting. What is interesting is that they're not going to work in that specific company any longer and maybe they have even been given a six month of salary. And after a little while they tell me that they had done what they should do in that company anyway. So what is... Utkarsh Narang (32:57.048) Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (33:01.977) Yeah. Mette Reebirk (33:18.471) What is FACTS? It is that I'm not any longer going to work in company X and now I'm going to be curious about what is it that I do not see in the job market or in the industry or what is it that I see too much of and they are still waiting for different results. Utkarsh Narang (33:39.47) Yeah. Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (33:46.319) Yeah. Mette Reebirk (33:47.634) What is it that I want to challenge? Because we do not need more of this and that. I'm free. And of course then suddenly you start to very... You may have a lot of stories about, I have a house, I need to pay my mortgage, I need to this and that. Utkarsh Narang (33:52.217) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (34:00.783) Hmm. Mette Reebirk (34:17.479) And then you have to come back to the present moment. Because the present moment you're sitting in your living room, in your lovely house, you have six months of salary. And what's the problem? There's no problem. Utkarsh Narang (34:25.103) Yeah. Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (34:33.529) Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It's really interesting, you know, that these stories are sometimes so wide within ourselves that it becomes really hard. And I think what you're taking us back to again and again is to be a little bit more observant, is to be a little bit more, more aware of what's happening. Maybe how are you brushing your teeth as simple as that? How are you breathing in this moment? And I think as a coach and we both do similar work. But like what could be something special about today? And today could does not have to be your birthday or anything else, right? You could still find something to be curious about. And there's such power in shifting your thought process from, as you were saying, being focused on your victim story to then moving into a more curious and open space. Utkarsh Narang (35:31.075) I think what I'm still kind of, we're so pre-programmed, Mete. And I try and play the devil's advocate again again, right? Like I keep thinking about someone who's focused on that content that does not serve them, maybe, who's focused on that conversation or an argument they had with their spouse, who's focused on that, my manager hates me. And their thought process keeps taking them back to the- Mette Reebirk (35:40.082) No, it's fine. Utkarsh Narang (35:59.76) to that same place, to that same victim story. And it seems like breaking away from these stories is hard for them to do. And I know awareness helps. What else would you recommend? What else do you think have you seen that's been helpful in your practice and work? Mette Reebirk (36:17.425) that you don't keep feeding the stories that doesn't help you. So if you think you have something not very nice going with your boss, try to imagine that you do not have this story. And then look at your boss. What is it that you see? Utkarsh Narang (36:23.329) Love it. Love. Mette Reebirk (36:46.967) I see someone who is always, you and you know for a fact that he has problems with his family, there's something with the kid. Maybe you can meet him, you know, with a little, know, in a nicer way because you can meet him where he is actually. And then maybe you think, but he's so... Utkarsh Narang (37:09.007) Yeah. Yeah. Mette Reebirk (37:16.973) Awful, I'm not going to do anything good for him. But what if when you're doing good for him you're also doing good for yourself? So and if you also become aware of that the relationship with him is not defining you. It's not about who you are. It's about Utkarsh Narang (37:37.071) Hmm. Hmm. Mette Reebirk (37:46.164) how you decide to be in the world and especially in the present moment. you can, next time you meet him, try to be a little bit more, you know, neutral. Just look at him. And then if you really look and if you really listen, you can hear someone who is maybe Utkarsh Narang (38:02.511) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (38:06.115) Yeah. Mette Reebirk (38:15.239) just as scared as you, or just as, know, mind's a little fucked up too. And then suddenly you united. And I think that in that moment when you do that, he can feel it. And suddenly he can relax. Utkarsh Narang (38:16.909) I love it. Utkarsh Narang (38:25.943) Yeah. Mette Reebirk (38:45.275) and maybe also start to meet you where you are and where it's not about him, it's about you. So be curious about the story you tell yourself and who would you be without that story? Utkarsh Narang (38:48.632) Love it. Mette Reebirk (39:04.583) Who would you be without the story that, you know, make you feel your life very heavy? And then maybe you will say, but that's reality. That is how it is. Yeah, until it isn't. Utkarsh Narang (39:18.639) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (39:22.243) Yeah. I think what's really important to understand is like at the end of the day, we are the authors of a story. Why let anyone else do that? And I think it's the story. It's what you said, right? Don't keep feeding the story that doesn't serve you. And I think to me, like, this is like the overarching theme of our conversation today is that, and I was talking to someone, coaching someone last week, we were talking about like how when we feel that the other person is judging us for the question we might ask or for the presentation that we might do. Even in that process, we're the ones judging them for judging us. Mette Reebirk (39:58.804) And actually, I have to say that... Mette Reebirk (40:06.983) people, are not really concerned about you. Utkarsh Narang (40:10.095) You Mette Reebirk (40:11.601) They actually, they are so much up in their own storytelling thing. They, you know, they don't spend much time about telling themselves about you, should... They couldn't care less. Get rid of it. They couldn't care less. Utkarsh Narang (40:30.863) Yeah, love it. They couldn't care less. They couldn't care less. We kickstarted this journey of curiosity from that eight year old Mete and we've had a beautiful conversation, Mete. Now, if you were to go into the future and somebody shared, I think that you are at the beautiful age of 62. So 18 years into the future, if the 80 year old Mete now comes back to you right now in this moment and has one piece of advice, she whispers that one piece of advice to you on how to live the rest of your years. What would that 80 year old man say? Mette Reebirk (41:03.453) Don't believe everything you think. Mette Reebirk (41:10.417) Very, very simple. Utkarsh Narang (41:18.125) I love that. Mette Reebirk (41:19.143) Life is not supposed to look a certain way. Life is life. Breathing, either you stand up or you sit. It's so simple. The rest... Utkarsh Narang (41:28.495) No, it's like... Mette Reebirk (41:40.243) It's... You choose the colors. Utkarsh Narang (41:45.165) Yeah, yeah, you choose the colors. I love that. For those who are still beautifully with us at 43 minutes, let's trust that 80 year old Mete and listen to the wisdom. Don't believe in everything that you think. Understand that curiosity is a pathway to that freedom. Letting go might be hard, but it is your path to releasing what is not serving you anymore. You're the only one who's responsible for yourself. No one's coming to save you. No one's coming to change your story. And if there's one war that you can stop today, that is the war within. And always remember that when you're talking to the other person, that'd your spouse, your manager, whoever that might be. Don't meet their story in terms of how you perceive their story to be. Meet them for where they are. You don't want to meet yourself in that moment. Remember that we all have thoughts, but we are not our thoughts. And being present, observant, and fully aware, even while you're brushing your teeth, is the best thing that you can do for yourself in the morning. And when you wake up, maybe on your bedside, put this word curiosity, because eight-year-old Meta told us that Let's be a little bit more curious. Thank you, Mete, for that beautiful conversation. Mette Reebirk (43:08.979) Thank you, my dear. Utkarsh Narang (43:11.289) I loved it for everyone who was on a podcast platform, shared with someone who might need this, and that's the only way we grow. And if you're on YouTube, then leave your name in the comments, leave what resonated with you, something that you thought you enjoyed. And if you're listening to this, 45 minutes into the conversation, I request you to not to share it with anyone because maybe they're not ready for it yet. You were, you got to this, you listened, and that's what matters to me and Mete. This is Utkarshan Mete signing off.