Utkarsh Narang (00:00.501) You can ask what you wanted to ask. Go ahead. Kate Sotsenko (00:02.562) I wanted to ask, because I usually say, you know, when you kind of have the conversation, thank you for inviting me. How do I pronounce your name correctly? Utkarsh Narang (00:11.361) Good question. Utkarsh. Utkarsh. That's perfect. Yes. And, and I'll record the introduction to the podcast later based on how the episode goes. Perfect. Awesome. Three, two, one, and here we go. Hey, Kate, thank you for being here. I'm really looking forward to this conversation. This is happening on a Friday evening and I've been exhausted by the week, but I can't find a better person to have this conversation with than you. Kate Sotsenko (00:13.59) Utkarsh, okay. Utkarsh, okay, good. Kate Sotsenko (00:20.469) Yeah, okay, that's fine. Kate Sotsenko (00:40.815) Hi, Otkarsh. Thank you so much for having me. For you, it's Friday evening. For me, it's Friday 8 a.m. So it's a great conversation. It's a great way to start my day. So thank you. Utkarsh Narang (00:50.815) Absolutely. And we live in a fascinating world, right? I'm in the future, but I can tell you the lottery tickets for the ticket that might be happening at 10 a.m. your time, but it'll not work. It'll not work. Kate Sotsenko (01:01.9) Maybe we can try. I don't know. Utkarsh Narang (01:03.657) Okay. After the podcast, I'll give you the numbers. Awesome. The first question that we always kind of initiate the conversation with Kate is if that eight year old girl were to be looking at you right now, the eight year old Kate, and talking to you and having a conversation with you, what do think the conversation will look like? Kate Sotsenko (01:06.473) Perfect, perfect. Kate Sotsenko (01:26.464) it's a conversation that I think that I'm trying to have more regularly now. I went back to something very personal. I went back to therapy almost two years ago now. And I think therapy is a gift, to be honest. I think these are the conversations that we need to have and we need to have that third... that other person perspective and I say third because there are already two of us talking, you know, me and the eight year old me. I think the conversation where it would probably start, it would be, you know, where are you now? Because I've traveled quite a bit in my life and I am not sure I'm currently based in Cyprus, but I'm not sure that this is my final location and destination. And I think that the conversation that we'll probably have is around that idea of finding a home. I am not, I was born in Belarus, but I haven't lived in Belarus for more than 25 years. And so I think that when you think of an eight year old me, that's not what she would have envisioned for a life for me. And I think that when she was When I was eight, I felt quite at home, whereas later on in my life, I started traveling, especially as a teenager, I've already lived abroad and that's where there's a lot of thoughts, beliefs, behaviors that are being formed and I no longer felt at home where I was born, in the country where I was born. And so I think this is probably a place where we would start, it's like, how did you end up? in Cyprus. What Cyprus? What are you doing here? We're there. So I think, that's probably would be where the conversation would begin. Utkarsh Narang (03:21.047) Mm-hmm. Utkarsh Narang (03:29.815) Beautiful. I'm going to pick on these two words because this word that he just said, I was talking to a Coachee this morning in the US and they were Indians. They were contemplating going back to India because of all the political things that are happening in the United States or staying in the United States. And they use this word where they said, Utkarsh, I don't know which of the two is my final destination. But it seems such a far-fetched idea in this ever evolving, changing and it's a cliche. I even hate myself saying these words, ever evolving, ever changing world. But that's what the truth is. So what does final destination really, really mean according to you and in terms of how you perceive this word? Kate Sotsenko (04:14.096) You know, not sure... I get a lot... I get asked a lot, sorry, about this idea, what was your favorite country? What was your favorite place to live in? And I don't have a favorite place, I would say. I think that there is the perfect place for that particular season in my life. So... I was living in China and it was my dream to go to China when I was in my 20s. I was very determined to end up in China. And I loved that experience. I lived in China for three years and I loved it. I truly do. But when in my 30s I had a few opportunities to go back to live and work in China, it was a very quick decision. It was very quick nope. Utkarsh Narang (04:51.415) You Kate Sotsenko (05:11.89) You know, it's like the hell yes and hell no. It was hell no. Because it was no longer right for me. And so I think that I don't... When maybe I said the final destination, I would love to settle down and I would love to have that final destination. When I say final, it doesn't necessarily mean that I will not move around and we shouldn't move. I think traveling is the most amazing MBA that we don't talk about. Utkarsh Narang (05:14.092) Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (05:41.495) Mmm. Kate Sotsenko (05:42.899) And traveling and leaving in places is very different, right? Being a tourist and actually leaving in the culture, in the place is very different. But I think the reason, at least why I need that final destination, is that it's very hard with everything that is going on in the world and in our own lives to feel, to achieve anything if you're not grounded. Because it's a floating state. Utkarsh Narang (06:08.663) Hmm. Kate Sotsenko (06:12.392) when you're constantly moving and you feel like you don't have a home. it's speaking from experience, it's not an easy one because we need that every house and you can think of the house metaphorically, whatever you building your family, for example, you want to build the family, right? People want to get married to have children, for instance, that's building a house. You're building your business. That's building a house too. You're building your career. Utkarsh Narang (06:36.311) Hmm. Mm-hmm. Kate Sotsenko (06:41.931) Right? For example, corporate career, that's building a house too. Any house starts with a foundation and the foundation is you. And the foundation of you are your legs. If you don't feel a strong ground that you're standing on it, it's very, very hard in my experience to take action. that's what for me is the final destination is that ground to make sure that I am. Utkarsh Narang (06:58.967) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (07:02.657) Hmm. Kate Sotsenko (07:11.637) I'm standing, but again, knowing how my life went in the last 40 years, I don't know if I will ever find it, but I am learning to embrace that ground in the place where I am in the moment. And we'll see. In the future, we'll see where I end up. Utkarsh Narang (07:33.559) fascinating. I always tell our listeners that whenever you're listening to these conversations, have a notepad because I do it and I'm taking notes. What you just said about how when you're building a house, the foundation is you. That is such a powerful statement. That is such a powerful statement. And how you build yourself and then the house on it, whether that house is the family, is like a physical house, is your career, whatever that might look like. That's so insightful. and this floating state that Kate, you're so beautifully and seamlessly spoke about. I think that's also a very relevant point. As we're kind of evolving, do you feel that there are any experiences that that eight-year-old Kate went through that you still very vividly remember and you feel like there are moments when you go back to it? And it's very selfish question because part of me wants to... And I've been asked like Utkarsh, how was your childhood? And it was a beautiful, blissful childhood. Like I cannot complain about anything in that childhood. And sometimes people are like taken by surprise. What the hell? You did not have any trauma, any abuse, anything and you're still a coach? What happened here? But what I'd really love to kind of hear from you is that are there any experiences of your childhood that you still feel come back to you vividly so and that maybe in ways shaped your beliefs and thoughts? Kate Sotsenko (08:59.841) I think it's interesting that you talked about trauma, abuse, because I feel like this is the story that you must have to be today a person who's on the journey of self-discovery, self-curiosity, self-development, right? Without this, why would you even question yourself, right? It's like if you didn't have any trauma. I think we've all had traumas and it's either we are aware of them or not. Utkarsh Narang (09:10.711) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (09:21.847) Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (09:29.655) Hmm. Kate Sotsenko (09:29.76) not every trauma trauma looks the same like we're used to right or a lot of the traumas are about the abuse whatever it is abuse from other people or abuse of substances or you know what happens in the family you know maybe abuse in the family so that is just one version of a trauma that is potentially the most visible But when you again, I mentioned therapy the first time I started therapy, I tried therapy. was 32. I now I'm 40. So it was eight years ago. I was not scared at all to go into therapy. I was very much inspired by a friend who was the same age who started therapy and she was already in it for, for a year. I was very curious about therapy in, in that I would say five years prior to that moment. But I've never, I said, well, I don't have a problem. Why would I go to therapy? And so only when I had the problem that I actually decided to go there. And that's to your point of having the trauma. You don't need to, you know, you don't need to have a visible trauma to get curious about yourself and to get, you know, on that journey of what I Utkarsh Narang (10:30.911) Mm-hmm. Utkarsh Narang (10:51.787) you Kate Sotsenko (10:56.236) usually even when I talk about productivity, asking questions. Asking questions not just to others, like that could be your parents, for example, or that could be your friends, for instance, who actually know a lot of things about you. So when you start, like for example, with my friends, have sometimes I say things and it's like, I realized that I am this and my friends are like "really!" and they say this ironically and sarcastically because Utkarsh Narang (11:10.732) Hmm. Kate Sotsenko (11:23.399) They've already knew it all along the way. And so we have to learn to ask more questions to others and to ourselves. So to have that conversation with your eight year old self. So even, but when I think about my trauma, I definitely had, and I had quite a few and I go through them in therapy, but it doesn't, again, it doesn't necessarily have to be that visible. One of the things that I clearly Utkarsh Narang (11:26.667) Mmm. Kate Sotsenko (11:52.869) It's a very weird image that I have. I'm not eight, I am five. But my mom lost her father, so I lost my grandpa. And that's a very clear image that I have still in front of me, me hugging the legs of my mom at the funeral. Is it a trauma? Is it the classical version of trauma that you would... today put on social media and say, because of this, I did this? Probably not. But is it a trauma for a five-year-old? Probably yes. My mom was pregnant with my sister at that time. So we need to probably make it a little bit larger in terms of what do we intend as trauma and how do we define trauma, right? It needs to be a broader definition. Utkarsh Narang (12:25.58) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (12:29.825) yet. Utkarsh Narang (12:49.463) Powerful. I love that. And thank you for this openness. I know you talking about this before we started the press the record button that this would be therapy, which you don't have to pay for, but it will be released in the world. But thank you for this openness because it really puts into perspective that sometimes we look for that visible trauma and it's not necessary that it'll be that visible trauma. It could be those almost this minute Kate Sotsenko (13:00.573) That's fine. Utkarsh Narang (13:17.911) micro moments that have had a large ongoing impact on everything. And as you're speaking about it, know, as you speak about your grandpa, I don't know why I recalling my grandmoms passing away. And in that moment, that was maybe the first time I'd seen my dad crying. they're very, yeah, it's, I don't know who's getting therapy here. It seems like I am. Kate Sotsenko (13:44.58) Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (13:45.815) It's a beautiful conversation. really appreciate it. And in that moment, I can imagine how I saw him as that strong figure, but then who broke down in that moment. So that's special. And then as soon as I'm speaking about that, there's image that's getting designed in my head is where my dad used to love watching this mythology on TV, which is about one of our Indian gods. And that Indian god is like the supreme figure. and a friend comes over to his palace and the God bows down to the friend and uses his hands to clean his feet and then gives him all the respect. And then the God's wife, I think in that moment asked like, why did you do that? You're the God. Like what happened? And the God responds that when I was in school with my friend, on a specific day we were stuck in a jungle because there was thunderstorm and this and that and he gave away all the rice that he had in his box to me telling that he has already had food but he offered it all to me and if he could offer whatever he had to me in that moment then who am I to not not do the same. Fascinating how these stories and it's magical the human experience the conversation it's so magical. As the eight year old now starts to grow up, I know the good busy did not come to existence at 18 or at 22. What does that journey like? How? I'm depends on how detailed you want to go here, but I'd love to hear because sometimes people feel that the clouds open and then there's sunshine where you understand that, Utkarsh you had to start a podcast or ignite neurons had to come into existence or the good busy for Kate had to happen. But it's a deeper journey. So what was that journey like, Kate? Kate Sotsenko (15:41.506) It is actually a deeper journey and again, usually the stories are You know, I've experienced this and then I woke up one day and this happened And I'm in this For me was not at all. It's not it's not my story at all. So again in my early 30s, I worked for a very different company in my 20s. My piece was at work was very very Utkarsh Narang (15:51.433) Magic. And magic happens. Kate Sotsenko (16:11.106) I I would say harsh the word because it was really, really harsh. I moved to Thailand where I was working for a company with Philosophy Slow Life and I moved to Thailand after China. So the pace, China versus Thailand was very, very different. So that's where I started asking myself lots of questions. It's like, why was I rushing so much? Why was I running all the time? Utkarsh Narang (16:13.395) Mm. Mm. Mm. Kate Sotsenko (16:40.915) I was sprinting and constantly sprinting. And then I've experienced a workshop. was a leadership workshop with a professor from the IMD business school in Lausanne. And one of the questions that he asked us was, when is that moment at work when you feel the most energy? And that was an interesting question. We were about 40 to 50 people in the room, all different backgrounds, different nationalities, different levels. We did different job. worked for a hospitality company. We had a CEO, a CFO, we had chefs, we had guest relations manager, we had sales and marketing people. But we all said the same thing. Whenever we feel useful to people, that's where we feel the most energy. And what I realized is that even the job that I was doing at that time, I was good at it, but I didn't feel that energy. And the professor said something else. He said exactly that. He said, it's not because you're really, really good at something that it gives you energy. And sometimes what happens is that because we are really good at something, we believe that that's what we should be doing. And so we're not looking elsewhere because we are really, good at something, but we're not actually getting that energy back. And so I started looking and so my journey started eight years ago, but I am I was an athlete before I played tennis for 10 years to become a pro. didn't happen, but you know, dreams change and things change. But I do believe in preparation today and preparation is also part of my framework that I teach today. Preparation is very important to me. So I didn't want to, at that time, I didn't want to say, okay, now I understand that it doesn't give me energy. So I have to start something new. Utkarsh Narang (18:31.319) Mm. Kate Sotsenko (18:31.448) So I gave myself time to actually find what gave me energy. And that's how I came to coaching overall. So I had a manager who introduced me to coaching. sounds very familiar because I had a coach for 10 years. played again sports and it just felt right because it started to give me energy and I really enjoyed teaching and that was giving me energy as well. It's very different from coaching, but all of that, like working with people, helping with people, seeing people progressing. Utkarsh Narang (18:47.136) Hmm. Kate Sotsenko (19:01.658) That little thank you sometimes, that's the little thing that gave me energy. So that's where I started. And the name, the whole concept of good busy came from these moments that I usually had with my colleagues when they would ask me, how are you doing? And I would say, I'm busy. You know, good, I'm busy. And they would say, I'm so sorry. I know there's so much to do. Utkarsh Narang (19:04.023) you Kate Sotsenko (19:26.454) I said, that's a good thing because if I didn't have anything to do, I would be just watching the clock. And I had that experience in my life once upon a time. And so that was sort of, I felt good about being busy, but many people felt bad about it. And that's where the idea was born. Utkarsh Narang (19:27.999) Thank you. Utkarsh Narang (19:32.449) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (19:44.374) Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (19:48.023) Beautiful. So many questions I have. This one question, think listeners, you want to take a moment, pause this podcast because what you asked, what the leadership professor asked you was when is that moment at work where you feel highest energy? I think it's such an important question to ask because if you're not, and I often say this, Kate and I love your thoughts, the human experience is a very... It's a large experience and we sometimes box it to just one or few identities and then feel that that's about it. And I think just this idea of feeling that highest energy or seeking that highest energy could take us so many places. What's been your experience? Kate Sotsenko (20:29.425) I agree. think, especially today, when we look at social media, the way we talk about work, we make a lot of fun about, you know, around corporate workspace and what is happening there. And of course, that's, you know, that's very, very fun and that's very relatable. And there is this other stream where nine to five is bad. The only way to make it is to become an entrepreneur. Utkarsh Narang (20:49.335) you Kate Sotsenko (20:59.98) And I think that we need to flip a little bit the coin and just ask ourselves, okay, yes, work does take time. Work is time consuming, energy consuming, know, emotion consuming. But what does it give me? Right? We very rarely ask that question. There is this famous, probably Utkarsh Narang (21:12.727) Mm. Utkarsh Narang (21:19.575) Mm. Kate Sotsenko (21:27.597) real post on Instagram and LinkedIn that goes around says only your children will remember that you worked late. Yeah, but also your children will remember that thanks to the job that you were doing, you were able to maybe travel with them or bring them to sports. They could do sports or you could go and do fun picnics in the, in the, I don't know, forests or a beach. Because let's be very realistic, there are very, very, very few people in this world who do not have to work. I always say like, look at the, like, we talk about work-life balance. I don't believe in that because work is part of life, right? There is a lot of fulfillment. There is a lot of energy that comes with it, right? Look at wealthy people. They still work. Why do they still work? They don't need to. They can have all the life balance in the world that they want. Utkarsh Narang (22:08.085) Mm. Correct. Utkarsh Narang (22:20.631) Good luck. Kate Sotsenko (22:24.308) can just remove that work part and they are still working. Look at people who retire. I recently read that one out of six, it was a study done in the US, one out of six is considering to go back to work because they feel useless. One out of three admits that they suffer from depression. Utkarsh Narang (22:29.879) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (22:38.165) Hmm. Yeah. Kate Sotsenko (22:47.231) So we really talk about work today. I think it's similar to anything else in our life. Until we lose it, we don't appreciate it. And so I think that we need to flip that coin and say, okay, yes, this is work that's what work is taking away from me, but what's the trade off? What is it giving me, right? Utkarsh Narang (22:57.237) Yeah, 100%. Utkarsh Narang (23:09.493) Yeah. Kate Sotsenko (23:13.287) And that's the whole idea to find that balance between those trade-offs. Right? It's not about eliminating work. For me, it won't work because look at people today who are job seekers. Well, they don't have jobs. That's great. Right? Well, they can have all the balance that they want. No, it's because it's unrealistic. So we need to, you know, to go back and to say, okay. Utkarsh Narang (23:21.847) Hmm. Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (23:28.823) Correct. Kate Sotsenko (23:40.914) What is that balance that we, how do we incorporate? And I have a great person that I follow on Instagram, not on Instagram, on LinkedIn, sorry. And we're great friends now. Roberto Ferraro, talks about, he does wonderful illustrations and he talks about work life integration because it is integrated. We should stop talking about it separately. We breathe. What is life? We breathe, right? If I breathe, I leave. I work. I breathe. Utkarsh Narang (23:58.076) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kate Sotsenko (24:10.719) So I leave, that's also part of life. Utkarsh Narang (24:14.936) Yeah, we could have this conversation for hours and hours, we'll keep it to the... But this idea, know, I think, and this used to happen with me where I'm like having conversations about asking for a raise and they'll say, you do such purposeful work Utkarsh, why do you need a raise. And I'm like, my purpose will never pay for my fees. If I have to send my kid to a good school. have to pay them the money and I cannot go and tell them I do a lot of purposeful work so why don't you teach my kid for free because that would be a service to humanity and so that money is absolutely important and one of my coachees once used this word, Utkarsh my job feels like a handcuff and I said but what does that handcuff allow you to do and he's like to buy my Tesla and like now who wants exactly so Kate Sotsenko (25:00.62) Not bad. Utkarsh Narang (25:04.863) If those handcuffs are golden handcuffs, you've got to understand the value of those handcuffs. think that's spot on. think, and here's my hypothesis. I think more than letting go of the work, I think because of this, all the noise that's around us, Kate, because of social media and this and that, people feel being an entrepreneur is like less work, but it's not. I procrastinated for months to start this podcast and it takes a lot of energy to do that. So that's one, and I'd love your view. But I think what people are seeking, is just a choice that I can work as many hours as I want or I can I can choose to not do like 12 hour days. And I think that's what they're chasing is what my understanding is. Kate Sotsenko (25:46.711) think there is this idea that the grass is green on the other side. It's not. I don't know how many companies you worked for, and how listeners, how many companies they've changed. Whenever we change, we're sticking that green grass. But you realize at a certain point after you've done a few jumps, you've jumped a few times, that the grass is green only where you water it. So even if today you think you're going to become an entrepreneur and you're going to do whatever you want to do, and you're going to work as many hours as you want, well, you're going to be very quickly disappointed. Because the thing is that when we are working for someone, we do have both, I call it the carrot and the stick, right? Because we've signed a contract, we are responsible for delivering a certain amount of Utkarsh Narang (26:21.493) Mm. Mm. Kate Sotsenko (26:44.536) hours in some cases, in some cases, a specific, very specific output, but we are, we are accountable because we signed that contract. Right. Well, you have to sign that contract with yourself when you become an entrepreneur. So the, there are days when you're not going to want to, to do the work, but you have to, and maybe those days you will not do the 12 hours you will do two, but you'll still do it because you know that if you don't do it, nobody else will do it. Right. Utkarsh Narang (26:53.707) Hmm. Kate Sotsenko (27:14.35) So I think there is this, you know, we talk we talk about the concepts like success, freedom, productivity, happiness. There is no universal definition. You can define what it means. I work with leaders, for example, for them, freedom means having a very regular income at the end of their months. That is freedom, right? Because they can also choose Utkarsh Narang (27:40.686) Absolutely. Kate Sotsenko (27:44.471) not choose, but when they get sick, when they are unwell, they can take sick leave and they're still paid at the end of the month, that's freedom. An entrepreneur can't really do that, especially in the beginning of the journey. So you do have other freedoms, so I can choose not to have any meetings one afternoon. Utkarsh Narang (27:54.763) Mm. Utkarsh Narang (27:58.059) Mm. 100%. Kate Sotsenko (28:10.073) or I had a situation where my sister's cat unfortunately needed to be brought to the vet, small emergency, and I chose not to do the work that I planned, but to cater to the cat. I can do that. That's my freedom today as an entrepreneur. But I don't have a freedom to take a few sick days for when I'm unwell. That's a freedom that I don't have today. Utkarsh Narang (28:25.058) Right. Utkarsh Narang (28:34.815) Yeah, yeah. Beautiful, I 100 % agree with that. And as you now expand your work and see where the growth lies and what's next, what's been that journey like? Like to build the good busy. If someone were to start like right now, 2025 is coming, so we'll have some big goals for the next year or so, which I don't resonate with, but just for the sake of it, just for the marketing click-baity purpose, I'm gonna say that. If someone wants to become... an entrepreneur and they understand that it's going to take work, but they want to have that freedom. What have you learned in your journey that you would want to kind of, yeah, maybe tips and tricks that you want to share? And it's a broad question, but whatever it is. Kate Sotsenko (29:17.213) There... Yeah, no, no, no. It's a good question. And... You know, there is one that I didn't learn... I get a confirmation, but that's the one that I learned from my dad. And I'll explain that in a second. And the other one is... I want to share now... I'm paraphrasing a famous quote. I think it was Edison who said that the invention of the light bulb was... an invention of 1000 steps. So I think the entrepreneurial journey is the journey of 1000 experiments. As we were talking earlier, you can learn as much as you want to learn from books, social media, attend courses, anything you want, talk to people, get a mentor. The only, you can't avoid experimenting. That's the only way for you to learn. And that's what I think that in my last two years, because I started two years ago, that's what I've been doing. I'm just experimenting everything single day. And there are things that work and there are things that don't work at all. And there are things that don't work and I understand why and I tweak them and they work. So it's just an experiment and you need to be okay with that. And to be okay with that, you need to... remove that notion of failure because a lot of we talk a lot of you know about about failure and I think I listened one to the podcast with Daniel Kahneman who said that he doesn't use the word failure he uses the word milestone because it's just a milestone just think of it when we were babies we didn't start walking on the first trial and yet we don't talk about those failures how many times did you did you Utkarsh Narang (30:56.407) Mm. Utkarsh Narang (31:01.815) Hmm. Kate Sotsenko (31:12.509) fall or your kids fell, right? You don't tell them you failed 20 times. Why didn't you walk right away? Right? Utkarsh Narang (31:17.515) Don't learn to walk now. You go lie down on the bed and that's it. That's your destiny. Yeah. Kate Sotsenko (31:22.853) Exactly. So I think it's just understanding that. And then I think this is just, that's the learning that I, let's say, accumulated myself in the last two years. Was it easy? No. But I accepted it. That's the only way. There is no other way. You have to just try and try and try again. And the first one that I wanted to mention that I got the confirmation of is I... Utkarsh Narang (31:32.919) Mm. Mm. Kate Sotsenko (31:52.814) thing that you can't build two houses at the same time. Something's got to give. The famous 80-20 rule is applicable anywhere. So my father had built several businesses, but he built every business one business at the time. Utkarsh Narang (31:56.215) Hmm. Kate Sotsenko (32:18.152) So a lot of people say today, know, and I'm very much fine with a side hustle, but that's why it's a hustle. If you want to actually become, for it to become more than a hustle at a certain point, you would need to choose. Something's got to give. I think it's, I love also quote from Michelle Obama. She says, you can have everything, just not at the same time. So that. idea if somebody wants to start an entrepreneurial journey is to understand that choose one. Do not go after two, three, four, five, because these are all opportunities that you might miss. Choose one, give it your all, right? And then see if it works, if it doesn't, if you like it, if you want to switch, you switch. But don't start 5, 10 things at the same time. I think that's... that's definitely something that I would not encourage to do. Utkarsh Narang (33:17.565) love that wisdom coming from your dad. And what does the future look like as you go on and build the good busy to the next level? What do you envision for yourself? Like what's the future journey looking like? Kate Sotsenko (33:31.583) wow, that's a good question. I mean, I do have my own definitely vision. I think that I'm still at the very beginning of the journey in comparison to where I want to go. And I just want to enjoy that journey because time flies, as we know. Utkarsh Narang (33:36.791) Mm-hmm. Utkarsh Narang (33:44.598) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (33:50.679) Hmm. Kate Sotsenko (33:55.819) I watched for a very long time, I think almost daily Sadhguru videos on YouTube. Quite a fan. And there's one video where he got asked the question, you know, how we can get faster to the goal. And he said, but why do you want to get faster? Why do you want to go faster? Because when you get there, it's the end. Utkarsh Narang (34:01.579) Hmm, that's amazing, Utkarsh Narang (34:20.599) Hmm. Kate Sotsenko (34:21.751) and it's really the end. And so I don't want it to be the end. So I want to enjoy it. And so what's next is for me to learning to enjoy it even more, because sometimes it's not easy. Sometimes you don't have patience and you want it to go faster. So I just want to keep on enjoying it. So I will do... Utkarsh Narang (34:45.182) love that Kate Sotsenko (34:52.472) Hopefully do more podcasts, more conferences next year. I will definitely do more workshops, virtual workshops as well. I have an audience for that as well. I'm doing one in December for goal setting. Not big goals. I'm not in terms of, know, very ambitious, go big or go home, but it's the right goal setting because I do believe that that's important. So I will go more into that, let's say, direction for next year. Again, it's an experiment, so I'm just gonna go with the flow and enjoy the experiment. Utkarsh Narang (35:26.229) Mm. Mm. Utkarsh Narang (35:31.051) Beautiful, love that. There's this quote by Gandhi that really resonates to what you and I are talking about, that there's more to life than just to increase its speed. And I think it's such a powerful idea and yet forgotten. And this idea on patience, I think as an entrepreneur, I've been there and there are days when like, I cannot wait more. It has to succeed. This experiment has to succeed. This is my experiment number 779. If not now, then when? And we all go through that. think what I've also realized through this journey, Kate, is sometimes I long for like a thought partner on this journey. it's been on my mind for a very long time, but we've never been able to create that. Maybe there's like a, soul opener slash founder space, which is just like, there's no attachment to, Kate Sotsenko (35:54.649) Yeah. Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (36:23.573) in a way, wanting more from that community, but just to hold space with each other and just to share that, yes, I'm also going through the same phase. I'm being patient. It's not easy, but I'm being patient. think, maybe, maybe something like that is something outside of the podcast. and I can absolutely have a conversation with. Kate Sotsenko (36:28.889) Yeah. Kate Sotsenko (36:34.405) Yeah. Kate Sotsenko (36:40.825) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. But I think I agree with you and I think LinkedIn is an ocean. It's a very, very big ocean. But within that ocean, I did find a few people who can be, maybe they're not all in one pod, but they are great people with who I can have this kind of conversations and share. Utkarsh Narang (36:48.073) It is. Utkarsh Narang (36:53.953) amazing. Utkarsh Narang (36:59.137) Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (37:05.484) Beautiful. Kate Sotsenko (37:06.659) share this journey and also a few friends of mine who are going through the same thing. Utkarsh Narang (37:10.711) Beautiful. No, that's very powerful. And the word that I've been kind of almost visualizing for the last three weeks now, and I think that's my word for 2025, is partnerships. Because I feel that sometimes we are trying to achieve all of it alone, and we feel that we have to do it alone. It does not have to be a lonely journey. It can happen together, I think is what I'm realizing. Kate Sotsenko (37:22.203) Mm-hmm. Kate Sotsenko (37:33.723) True, and that's why a lot of people, for example, call tennis an individual sports, but I think that there is no such thing as individual sport. So if anyone from listeners watches tennis, you know that whenever a tennis player wins the match, the first thing that they do, they thank their team because they are that actor that everybody sees, but there is a whole... Utkarsh Narang (37:38.528) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (37:43.127) Hmm. Kate Sotsenko (38:03.47) team around them that makes it actually happen. And I think that's why I also don't understand the term solopreneur because most of the solopreneurs, yes, you do not hire a person, you, you know, it's not on your payroll, but you work with freelancers, right? So you're not doing it alone. It's absolutely impossible to do it alone. But I think that also under that there is also family and friends. Utkarsh Narang (38:11.979) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (38:17.271) Mm. Utkarsh Narang (38:22.017) Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (38:27.882) It is. Kate Sotsenko (38:32.538) Those are also part of your team. If I didn't have my family and friends, I wouldn't be talking to you today, for sure. Utkarsh Narang (38:40.385) Thank you for sharing. I think that's a very, very thoughtful idea. But since you're a, you still are a tennis player for me, I have to ask you this. Who's the best Federer, Nadal or Djokovic? Kate Sotsenko (38:52.796) That's, I think if my, some of my tennis friends will hear that they're all on the Federer side and I've always been, I like all of them. I would say if I have to rank them, for me it's Djokovic, Nadal and Federer. I know for sure. For sure. I don't know, I know that, you know, a lot of people do not necessarily admire, not that... Utkarsh Narang (38:54.891) you Utkarsh Narang (39:00.86) I'm not Utkarsh Narang (39:11.649) You've broken my heart, Kate Sotsenko (39:22.227) They definitely admire Djokovic. think that they consider him not as likeable, I would say, and maybe a little more controversial. But I think all of them have very different characteristics. Djokovic is at his best when he's losing. That's when the beast comes out and you, I've never seen that tenacity in anyone and that... Utkarsh Narang (39:39.745) Yes. Kate Sotsenko (39:48.04) focus emerges and he's like, I'm doing everything. There is nothing that can stop him, right? Nadal has this amazing focus from the start, no matter what's happening. And Roger is the calmness. I mean, I'm sure he broke maybe a racket or so, too, but. Utkarsh Narang (40:07.895) Mm. Kate Sotsenko (40:14.236) The calmness and the concentration that he has is an amazing, yeah, it's very admirable. So they are all different, great people, yeah, great. Utkarsh Narang (40:17.782) Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (40:22.102) Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (40:25.527) So all the entrepreneurs and all the people who are in the jobs or whoever is listening, tenacity, focus and calmness are the three things that you need. And we've heard that from Kate. But as you were saying, Kate, that life passes by very quickly. Imagine in four decades from now, you're 80 years old and that 80 year old Kate just turns around and says to the 40 year old Kate, what would she say? What would her advice be? Kate Sotsenko (40:55.489) Her advice would be what I'm trying to work on now, enjoy. Just enjoy every day, no matter what's happening, just enjoy life every day because it flies. You know, I was 11 years old when I said to my aunt who was at that time, I think turning closer, she was turning 40. And I said, my God, you're so old. Utkarsh Narang (41:18.423) No! Kate Sotsenko (41:19.904) And it's so far away and she told me, it's like you're gonna be 41 then. I'm like, it's so far away. I was 11 at that time and I remember this. Now I am 40. And so I know that 80 is going to come way quicker than I think it will. And so the only advice that I think today my 80 year old self will would give to me is just enjoy. No matter what's happening, no matter what's happening any day. Utkarsh Narang (41:30.391) Mm. Kate Sotsenko (41:49.78) Just enjoy and laugh. You know, even if you're crying, laugh. Utkarsh Narang (41:54.807) Yeah, beautiful, beautiful. I love that. Thank you, Kate, for your time. I truly enjoyed this experience. And for those who are listening, we'll put all the links in the show notes. Go follow Kate. Her work on LinkedIn is inspiring. I've been a fan for years. And then her title, which I'm reading from the screen because I don't want to put it right wrong, Make Time for What Truly Matters. If we could title this episode that, I think that's apt. And thank you, Kate, for all the all the beautiful thoughts and the stories that you shared. Kate Sotsenko (42:22.868) Thanks Utkarsh for having me and thank you everyone for listening. Thank you. Utkarsh Narang (42:26.103) Absolutely. Take care.