Utkarsh Narang (00:01.291) Change is the only constant, but it always feels terrifying. Until and unless you realize that change is sometimes the bridge between who you are and who you're becoming. And I think in our conversation today, Betina and I will be speaking about how do you move from fear to freedom, how do you re-embrace reinvention at any age and build a life that's built on courage. Welcome Betina to the IgnitedNeurons podcast. Betina (00:30.574) Thank you so much for inviting me. Utkarsh Narang (00:33.663) I'm looking forward to this conversation because there are so many parallels in both of our worlds, how we help people create the clarity, the courage, the conversation around fear. So I'm just intrigued to learn more through this journey. But the first question, Betina, that we start the podcast off to put people in the deep end is that if that eight year old Betina, the little girl wherever she was growing up, eight years old, little kid, dreams in her eyes, if that Betina were to come and meet you right now. What kind of conversation do you think will emerge between the two of you? Betina (01:08.91) to find the courage and face the fear even if you don't feel like doing it. And I say that because when I was a child, always when we had those special events at school, you know, when you go out with all your schoolmates to a special place, to an excursion, you spend the day off, I always had bellyache. I couldn't go. I was so nervous, so afraid of facing new things that I felt sick. Utkarsh Narang (01:26.432) Mm. Betina (01:38.946) And I use this as an excuse. I came to my mom said, I'm so sick. I cannot attend. And this happened until I was a teenager. So I missed so many things because I wasn't able to face the fear and do it anyway. But I think after my teenagers, something changed, something clicked. I said, no, I'm going to face them. I'm going to face them even if they don't feel right. Even if I don't feel okay, even if my body is saying don't go. And this really changed my life, to face it, even if you don't want it. So what I will say is, I wish I would have done this earlier, because I miss so much with my peers in school, and I was younger, because I was afraid of change, afraid of new things. Utkarsh Narang (02:24.801) It's really fascinating. What do you think, what are the fears for an eight year old? and I know it's really hard. Sometimes I ask this question to myself. It's really hard to really visualize those moments and memories. But what do you think as an eight year old, what did you fear? Betina (02:42.06) I was afraid of new things. I was afraid of leaving the security of my home. I was afraid of leaving the known to face the unknown. And funny enough, since I was five until I was 15, I was facing urinary tract infections. And when I was a teenager, my mom really took me to a specialist when I was, I think, 18. And this specialist said that those kind of diseases are totally related to insecurity. So I don't know if you heard about Louise Hay. She's an amazing positive coach, Louise Hay. She has an N numbers of books and the healing that she has for those insecurities is I welcome the unknown. I'm open to the new. I'm not afraid. And since I started doing this mantra, it really changed, changed my life and changed also what my body was saying to me. I was constantly sick because I was feeling insecure and I was able through affirmations to change that and change my behavior. But first of all comes the awareness, what's happening and that's what happened when I was around 18 years old. Utkarsh Narang (04:06.144) It's really powerful the impact our emotions and how what we're feeling can actually impact the physical and the physiological. And I've read research which are not coming to mind right now, but I've read enough about this that how if you're having this strong sense of fear or strong sense of any emotion, how it can lead to these ideas. You said somewhere that something clicked between the ages of 15 and 18. And that makes me think. that it was like a light bulb moment, but I'm pretty sure that it was not like an aha that changed everything. take us through that journey because how did someone who was fearful of the unknown then learn to step out? Betina (04:51.201) I think it was to learning with my body, learning what was going on on my body and trying to understand if something's happened to my body, it's my body talking to me. But I didn't have this awareness at the time. My mom just took me to different doctors and by talking with doctors, they just said, what's going on in your life? Why are you feeling like that? And then I was able to correlate what was happening in my life. and how my body was reacting to it. It was not just my body, it was what was going on around me. And having this awareness, okay, when something change on my environment, I feel a challenge, then my body reacts. Was this awareness that the environment impacts how we react. I think that was the big click. Utkarsh Narang (05:42.784) The environment empowers how we react. Did I catch that right? Betina (05:50.018) The environment impact our body. The things that happen around us impact us somehow and our body express that with feelings, even with sickness. And I was able to correlate that and then do the change. I don't wanna feel sick again. What can I do to face this differently? Utkarsh Narang (06:06.784) you Betina (06:15.509) And through affirmations, I was able to really face the unknown without fear and slowly changing. as you know, I'm an expat and I've been moving countries and facing new things really with braveness. My first outgoing was when I was 15. I went to Germany for a month. Utkarsh Narang (06:15.711) you Betina (06:39.629) to learn a new language and that's when I needed to face the announcement. I have to do it. I will do it even if it's painful. And was the first time I was out for a long time from my family. And when I came back, I felt so empowered, said, okay, I can do that. So when I finished high school, when I was 18, I went again, then I went to Switzerland for three months and I was expanding the time that I was... away from the secure place. And those experiences really shaped my future. And as you know, I lived in the United States for eight years, then Australia for three years, and now my family, we're all here in Switzerland. So I think I really enjoyed once I faced it. Utkarsh Narang (07:11.168) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (07:31.977) And then what you're saying is, you know, at that time, when you expanded your horizons and exposure to these unknowns, what allowed you to comprehend that shift? what I'm kind of assuming, and I'm also being the devil's advocate here, exposing someone to a new environment could either break them or make them. What was different about that state and phase for you that going to Germany, moving to Switzerland or moving to like moving countries? really helped you grow as a person. Betina (08:05.421) I think first of all is talk to people that have done that experience before. So before I moved to that, I went to Germany. I talked with several peers, other kids that have had that experience and I saw the change that had in their lives. They were much better students. They could perform much more. They could speak different languages. And I said, I want to be like them. Utkarsh Narang (08:12.084) Mmm. Betina (08:34.689) So by talking with people who've done that inspire me and spark that I could be like them, I could be also profiting other language, I could be a better student, and I wanna come back differently. And I was inspired by their examples. And this is what made me made the move, like being sure that on the other side. is not that hard that people have done it and came back even stronger. So I think talking to peers, talking to people who have experienced what you're afraid of really, really empowers you to be more calm on your decisions. Utkarsh Narang (09:19.072) I love that because I think in so many phases talking to someone has helped me kind of feel more logical about the leaps that I've taken. So I absolutely resonated with them. And I've shared a TEDx talk, which you might have heard or not. what I spoke there, Betina, I love your views on it, is that fear is perceived to be a really non-constructive emotion. But I have seen it differently because I feel like if you can use fear in the right way, It can actually push you to be courageous. How has your relationship with fear evolved over the years? Because there's a norm that fear is the enemy, but fear can also be a friend. So how do you perceive fear differently over this journey? Betina (10:03.022) Something that really helped me was attending to a speech training. I want to be a good speaker, so I enrolled in a year-long speaking training. And the way the training was configured was so interesting. Every Saturday, we sit in a class with 40 people, and everyone had the chance to speak two or three times for three minutes. Utkarsh Narang (10:29.792) you Betina (10:30.124) But the teachers had set up in a way that they had like four chairs for you to sit there and wait for your turn. And when you were sitting on those four chairs and was a countdown for three, two, one, you knew that you're gonna be the next one. So we were able during the whole year, every Saturday, to feel that emotion over and over and over. Utkarsh Narang (10:50.912) Mm. Betina (11:00.258) So first time was so, I was so afraid of speaking. I had that feeling inside of me as I was moving the chairs, I was feeling even worse. And then was my time in front of everyone looking at me, judging me. I felt so bad, but by doing over and over and over after like 40 weekends, said, okay, I think I can do it. I know how it feels. Utkarsh Narang (11:24.032) Yeah. Betina (11:26.218) I know how my body reacts, I know when I shake, I know when I feel nervous, when I... I miss my words or when I forget things. So what can I do? So every time I had a chance to do something better, bring my notes, prepare better, improvise, try storytelling. In every class, the teacher gave a little tip. Why don't you try this time? Something new. Why don't you try having notes? So every time they were adding something new and we were feeling more comfortable with the tools and also comfortable with the feelings inside our bodies. So in summary, what I think it's important is for you to face in small doses the fear inside your body and see how your body reacts. Does your legs feel shaky? How do you feel on your belly, on your chest? How do you breathe when you're afraid? How do you talk when you're afraid? And once you perceive that in your body, you're able to change it. it's coming. I'm going to have a belly ache. my God, what can I do? So can I breathe deeply? And using techniques and talking to people, more experience in the field, again, really, really helps. But facing the fear is so important. Doing even if you have the fear and then perceiving how your body reacts with the fear inside of you, the adrenaline and all the hormones created by the fear. Utkarsh Narang (13:00.96) Yeah, it's a very deep space of awareness what you're talking about and I can deeply resonate with that. think, you know, kind of spread out there for the listeners as well, that it's really important if you're, if you can be aware of how you're feeling and how your body's shifting when certain emotion gets amplified. I think it's a moment to run a small little experiment, which Betina, you very beautifully shared how exposing yourself to fear every weekend for 30, 40 odd, maybe a year long. really changed how you perceived that fear. then each week, maybe you ran a small experiment, which I think is such a beautiful way to overcome that fear. And then fast forward. And one thing I want to kind of really call out as well is that every time I meet you, I've met you, think, in person about three times, every time I meet you, you're either transitioning into a new country or moving to another new country is what I've seen as a pattern. Yeah, it's really fascinating. I find that really fascinating. Betina (13:52.462) you Utkarsh Narang (14:00.289) Fast forward a few years now and you help others transform through their journey, whatever that looks like for them, right? let's, I want you to really share with our listeners today as to how do you help people who are in a way stuck in some level of fears to achieve freedom. So let's do like almost like a case study and you select who you want me to be. define my demographic and psychographic, and then I'll come to you as a person who's stuck in fear, and let's see how we create those phases for our listeners to take something out. How does it sound as an experiment? Betina (14:44.346) that's good, yes. So imagine you are a foreigner, you just moved to a brand new country, you are a spouse of someone who just got an amazing job in a multinational company and you had to quit your job to follow your spouse. And you had an amazing job in your country, but you really prioritize the family, you have kids and you're moving abroad now, you have to... Utkarsh Narang (14:46.823) So. Betina (15:13.272) redefine your dreams, what you want to do in your life. But you're feeling afraid. Afraid of even expressing your deep wishes of changing your career. You had a dream since you were a child to do something different that you did and this is your chance. Utkarsh Narang (15:33.953) So relatable, that sounds so relevant. And then I'm like shifting in my chair because three years ago, that was the case. My wife got a job here in Australia. We were in India. And so I'm going back to January of 2023. Let's make it really, really real for people. We now know that March we're moving to Australia from India. We are about to sell everything that we have in India, move away from parents, family, and all of that. Betina (15:36.654) You Utkarsh Narang (16:03.648) And I'm scared. I'm shit scared because my business was growing in India after almost two years of hard work. So I feel, between I'm stuck, I feel that when I moved to Australia in March of 2023, I will not have enough opportunities. I will eat through my savings. I will have to reinvent myself and I would have no idea where to start. So what should I do? Betina (16:32.623) First of all, connect to your real dream. So what is your dream? How do you express yourself in the world? I truly believe that the work is just a way for us to grow as a person. So how do you choose to grow in your work environment? What kind of work makes you fulfilled? Utkarsh Narang (16:57.502) Working with people makes me feel fulfilled. want to have an impact on other people's lives where I feel that as I'm going through my own phases and journey, I can be like a real example to them that whatever curveballs life is throwing at you, you'll still come out okay. And so that's the big dream. so... but it still feels really hard because it's a new country. Maybe I don't understand their culture. Maybe I don't understand anything. yeah, I have that dream, but I'm still lost. Betina (17:41.856) several countries as well and I don't know if you perceive when you travel that you find people all over the world that you look to the person and you can feel the person. You don't have to understand their language but you can feel the person. Does this happen to you sometimes that you can feel the person even if she's not or he is not speaking at all? Does this happen to you? Utkarsh Narang (18:13.888) I think so. I'm thinking through it. I think so because there have been moments where I would meet someone and have a conversation where it would feel like I've known them forever. And it's not necessary that we're from the same country. We might have not known each other, but something just, there's a spark, right? So I've sensed that spark. Betina (18:25.068) Mm-hmm. Betina (18:34.745) Mm-hmm. Betina (18:38.915) Yeah. Betina (18:42.541) What do you think will make you connect in that deeper level with other people in this new country? How can you connect with people like that? What changes do you need to do in yourself to be able to connect with them in this deeper level? Utkarsh Narang (19:05.776) put myself out there. Go and meet people. So maybe like go to a networking event and meet them and have coffee with them. Yeah I need to to experiment with that. I think that's what I'm thinking right now. Betina (19:26.447) Yeah, we met in a networking event and we had the chance to chat with each other. During the chat, how did you felt? Utkarsh Narang (19:30.002) I agree, yes we did. Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (19:37.429) Hmm. So that felt really good because you shared your own experiences of moving countries. And I think some of the ideas that you shared were super helpful in how I could put them into practice. And so I'm seeing what you're helping me think through here, which is that A, I need to make sure that I do those experiments. So I'm going to. zoom out and time out from the role play, but I'm going to share for the listeners what I'm hearing you and correct me if I'm wrong, Betina. You said the phase one is to connect deeply with your dreams. What does that mean? Betina (20:16.023) Understanding what's important to you in this phase of life. That's super important. What will make you grow in this phase of life. Maybe your previous role in your previous job, you weren't growing anymore. So now you have a chance to start from scratch and you can decide to be a new person every day in your life. So going deeper and taking this chance, who I want to be. today. How I'm going to use my work experience to grow and be the best version of myself. So we need to be constantly asking those questions. So that's the first step to go deeper on what do you really want to do. And once you know what you want to do is how you're to connect with people. That's the second step. Not just mentally, but once you meet with someone, how can you connect with the person in all the senses. and really understand if you guys have an interconnection. So when we met, Tunaj, we had a click because we had something in common. And be curious is what help people really find this connection. So if you want to put yourself out and network or go to places and try to connect with people, try to find something that you have. in common with this person that you're interacting with and you do that by being curious, sincerely curious, not you know with interest in anything, just be curious about their life and maybe you'll find you have kids same age, maybe you speak the same language, maybe you have the same interest in books, I don't know. Utkarsh Narang (22:06.302) You know, it's, it's, I deeply resonate with what you're saying and I have, I've been through those phases. So I understand it. And I think you and I share this, almost this, this common denominator, right? That our mindset is such that it's over the years taught us to experiment. But here's, here's me putting myself into the listener's shoes and saying, Betina and Utkarsh I'm 40 years old. I just moved countries and I got laid off. So a company moved me into a new country, my company, and then it laid me off because that's what they think. And now I feel stuck. I have fear. I just don't have the willingness to move forward. What's a micro action, Betina? They're not even ready to think what their dream is. They feel like just survival on the ground is so hard. So what's a micro action that you can give them to flip the script or change the lens? Betina (23:04.463) trying to find their why, why they want to do things. I have a vision board in front of myself. I'm looking here upwards and my why also to do this coaching practice is to have financial freedom. I want to have financial freedom so I can choose what kind of work that I do and I want to contribute with nonprofits. So I know my why. I want to coach nonprofits for free. So to do that, I need to have enough income as a coach to be able to cover that. So I know my why. And getting to know your why, your deep why. Why you moved to a new country with your spouse? Why you want a new job? What are you going to do with income? Do you need to help your mom? What is your big why? Do you want to support your family? or you want to study something different, you want to change careers, but find your big why behind your actions. This is what's going to make your drive to happen, your willingness to change or to do anything, finding your big why. Utkarsh Narang (24:09.12) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (24:14.088) I know Simon Sinek speaks a lot about it and there are a lot of thinkers who are, but this why, and I love, you might have read that book, Man's Search for Meaning by Victor Frankl. Have you? Yeah, I see you nodding. I just love that book and this whole idea that someone who has a sense of purpose, a sense of being will survive the most atrocious conditions. Betina (24:26.477) Mm-hmm. Utkarsh Narang (24:39.262) So how do we find a why? Because that again is a deeper conversation to have. So again, I'm just presenting these challenges to you because I listeners who have not taken that journey yet to feel that we've given them something to, we've extended the olive branch to them. So how does one work on finding a why, Betina? Betina (24:59.215) I Betina (25:04.579) When I do my coaching sessions and we're working on their life mission or the mission, the legacy they want to leave in the world, the question that I make is, imagine it's your funeral day and you have a lot of people attending to your funeral. What would they say about you? What kind of person you were when you were alive? And what is the legacy you left behind? So how people will remember you. And by doing this exercise together with the client, and then they just go one level and then you say, what else? And then what else? What else? And then they go deeper, six levels, until they find what is their why. I want to really make the difference in people's world. And then it changes. Everyone is different. But by asking this question, and you can ask yourself, If I'm dead tomorrow, what kind of legacy would I like to leave in the world? What would I like me to do in this world? And this will dictate what kind of person you want to be. And funny enough, I recently changed the way I see values. I had several values that I was applying in my life, but I said, no, I want to change the values in my life. What if I want to be a different person and live by new values? And I recently changed my values. And I put the first one as simplicity. I want to live a simple life. The second one is easy flow. I want things to flow easily in my life. I don't want the work to look hard. Utkarsh Narang (26:41.546) Hmm. Betina (26:53.737) I don't want my life to look hard. want clients to come smoothly to me. The third one is fun. I want to have fun with everything that I do. I don't want to retire and then start traveling and then start having fun. Continuous Improvement is my fourth one. I really want to keep learning daily, daily. And Wealth is the fifth one. I really want to bring wealth in my life so I can have options and I can help people. So instead of evaluating the values that I was using at that moment, I chose the values I want to live for. And those are my new values that I'm... using to take decisions and driving me as a compass. So having the vision of your mission, what is the legacy you want to leave in the world, having clear values. This really is the base of any coaching program, I think it's so important. Utkarsh Narang (27:51.56) percent. Yeah, and I think it's powerful and I'll share my values too because I've been I had been carrying the same values for the last eight years since 2017 and they were serving me beautifully so I know complaints but August this year I was with a group of coaches for an offsite and in those two days one of the values left me and another one made its way into my top five but what you're very thoughtfully sharing and I think I want to kind of re-emphasize it so that listeners really understand why this might seem like too simple, but sometimes you need the simple stuff to solve for life's complexities. And life's not complicated. Life's like super simple, I think. It's a little complex sometimes, but we can simplify it. And what you're saying is, imagine your funeral day and look back. How would you want to lead your life? to make sure that that day when you pass by, pass on from this planet, what are people saying about you? How are you feeling about yourself? How do others remember you? And I think what I also feel, Matina, is that that day can actually come any day. I don't have to go like 30 years down the line for my funeral. It could happen tonight. And this could be the last night of my existence. And I used to find discomfort in saying that, but I've over the years felt that that's the truth, right? So I run from the truth. So death is possible any day. So that reflection is absolutely deep. And then you beautifully shared about your values, which are simplicity, easy flow, fun, continuous improvement in wealth. And I think the people who build this compass, I think it becomes easy for them to navigate through life. How has your experience been working with values for yourself and for others? Betina (29:44.144) totally different when you live your daily life with the values as your compass instead of just goals because even if you don't achieve your goals but you go to your bed at night and are sure that you live your values that's more than enough. Utkarsh Narang (30:06.686) Love it. Love it. Betina (30:07.449) Something valuable that I think we should talk about is the phases of change and how does they impact our lives because sometimes we don't understand what's going on in our lives. So change has phases and it all starts first with contemplation where you're observing a change you want to happen. Then you prepare yourself. Then you take action. You maintain, you relapse and then you have a pre-contemplation. Utkarsh Narang (30:12.01) Mm-hmm. Betina (30:38.101) again because the cycle comes over and over and over again in our lives. So on the pre-contemplation it's when we start to get curious, we explore barriers and benefits, we gather information. Take this example of going for a month abroad just to learn a language, a pre-contemplation is when you just get curious and then spark the idea of what you want to do. The contemplation is when you're doing the list of pros and cons, you're talking through, you're connecting, and you already start to make a movement to the direction of what you want. Then you have the preparation, where you set a simple plan, maybe you write the goals, you build in your support system to go and do whatever you need. And the next phase is the action. where you really need to stay consistent, celebrate your wins, you have to be a problem solver, realizing things and changing and really putting in action your plan, like when you're in the middle of your month abroad. And the maintenance is when you go into a routine, you're ready there, everything is flowing beautifully. Utkarsh Narang (31:47.648) Hmm. Betina (31:56.11) you know, and then you start preparing for the new change. Sometimes you have a relapse, you have a problem, you want to go back. That's when the triggers come and then you have to create a new plan and then you go back again to create a new plan to solve your problem. So those are the phases of change and they're super important for you to understand because sometimes maybe you don't understand why you're so different than your spouse. Utkarsh Narang (32:08.736) you Mm. Betina (32:25.519) Maybe your spouse is already in the new phase, it's prepared, it's or if they have a job, if you use the example we did at the beginning, Clash, that maybe your spouse already have a job, everything is planned, she's just going to look and play, you're in a pre-contemplation, evaluating what you need to do. So respecting those phases and understand what needs to be done. Utkarsh Narang (32:25.696) you Utkarsh Narang (32:34.357) Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (32:39.04) Mm-hmm. Betina (32:50.209) And having a coach throughout the process really, really helps you when you have to face a big change in your life. Having a coach like you, helping them do the right questions, support them along the way, makes a huge difference. Utkarsh Narang (33:07.006) Yeah, yeah, I love those stages. did I catch that right? So contemplation and pre-contemplation are like, it's almost like cyclic and then you move from that to the preparation stage, then you go into the action stage and then finally the maintenance stage. As I'm listening to this, Betina, where do commonly see people be stuck the most in out of those, out of these phases that you described? Betina (33:35.61) Going back to coaching tools, there isn't a personality assessment that you can do. It all depends on your personality and the combination of aspects you have when you're playing yourself around the world. Because for a driven person, they go directly to action and they face the majority of their problems in action. If you have someone, depending on the assessment that you're using, if you're using disk, for example, an eye is a person who spends a lot of time investigating and talking to others and seeing what they want to do and preparing. And it all depends on the personality. So I recommend people to really do an assessment, a personality assessment, to understand what's important to them. If they really have an analytical mind, they need to have comparisons, pros and cons, and spend more time to feel secure. That's what they need. If they're a driven person, they need to take action sometimes. It's important for them to see the impact of their actions and maybe pair with someone who is a more deep in organization and to do a different plan. So having a coach is always helpful to map your personality, help you find... Utkarsh Narang (34:52.17) Hmm. Betina (35:01.879) your mission, your values, create a plan and support you alongside your change. Utkarsh Narang (35:10.656) I love that phrasing and the stages. What I've also seen, and I know you would have more wisdom to share on this, is sometimes as people age, instead of aging gracefully, they start to feel more resistance. Whether it's about entering your 40s and feeling like, my time is running out. I've seen people get into their 50s and say that my time is already out and people will replace me. And with this constant battle that we're fighting with the artificial intelligence instead of like embracing it fully. How do you see these different age groups battle through change and what has been your experience? Betina (35:54.256) So one of the studies I made is the seven-year cycles of Rudolf Stein, where he analyzed what happened every seven years of our lives. And we start, when we are born, very connected to our spirituality. And there is a big decrease when we are between our 20s and 40s on our connection with spirituality. Utkarsh Narang (35:59.979) Mm-hmm. Betina (36:19.055) And when we achieve 42, we start to reconnect to our spirituality and we go up again. So if you understand the seven years life of cycle, cycles of life, it's very easy for you to guide your client on what phase and what's important. The same thing happens with our biological. development. We start as a baby, very tiny, and then from 0 until 18 is when we have the peak curve of our body, and then again from 20 to 40 is when you have the best of your body, and then on 42 the declination starts. So when you're coaching someone, we have to consider what cycle of life they are. They need to check how their body is going, how their mind, their connection with the spirituality. And the combination of those three things helps you reinvent yourself in a different way. So around 40, 50 is the time for you to really start taking good care of your body, to diminish this declination of the body and also be aware of your connection with spirituality, with nature, with everything that really matters. That's why people normally around this age decide to change career and to do something more meaningful because they're already passed through that phase of creating family, growing kids, acquiring things. making money, that's not that important anymore after you're 47 and 49, depending on the phases of the seven-year cycles of life. So I think it's beautiful when people start to change after that phase and I don't think people are stuck, I think people are in crisis where they need to re-evaluate and change their lives. That's when Betina (38:20.047) That's why we created this new program that I'm involved with. It's how can we help people that are facing these changes and need to embrace a new life, revisit their purpose, revisit their physical needs and what's important for them at that moment in life. We're living longer. Nowadays, we don't stop at 70 or 60. We will continue until 100. So we need to rethink what we're going to do. Utkarsh Narang (38:39.903) As I'm listening to this. Utkarsh Narang (38:44.352) Correct. Correct. Betina (38:49.389) from 50 to 100. Utkarsh Narang (38:52.98) Yeah, because I'm just imagining, if I turned 40 this year, so people are calling like, it's such a milestone, birthday and all of that. But I imagine, and as I was reflecting on that, that Utkash at 30 years old would not recognize Utkash at 40 years old. And that person has grown tremendously in whatever ways I measure my growth. And then I feel like from 40 to 50, there'll be more growth in different shapes and forms. so growth as a... So growth as a value is everlasting for me. So that's one. Second, as I'm listening to you and hearing you say these seven year cycles, I've seen them play really well in my career because the first seven years of my professional career were as a physiotherapist and then the next seven years were something else. And now I'm reaching the seven year mark as a coach. So I'm just curious to see where this might shift and what might change over the next couple of years. So it's really fascinating. Betina (39:53.658) And what we do, it's an autobiography separated by every seven years. So there are questions that you ask yourself every seven years to revisit what happened in the phase of your life and kind of understand your story. Once you do that, it's much easier to do that session. Utkarsh Narang (40:03.52) Hmm. Betina (40:14.073) to create your life mission because you understand everything that passed already and what really matters to you. If you want, later on I can share the questionnaire. I have a PDF with all the seven-year cycles of life that you can share with your listeners. If they want to do this autobiography, that's really fun to do it at the end of the year, then they can rethink what they want to do the following year with their lives. Utkarsh Narang (40:38.11) be amazing. Absolutely. We'll put all the links in the show notes. One thing that's coming to mind and you spoke about it and I see a paradox. I'd love your views on this. So yes, human life, the longevity of life is increasing, but in certain parts of the world and in certain professions, the stress that there is right now, the lifespans are also, I'm seeing like a decline there as well. So how do you see this role of maintaining one's health, having a healthy body, a healthy spirit, be important in these cycles or in this journey of life. Betina (41:17.625) What I love to use is the metaphor of your hand. So imagine we have different areas of our life. The first one is your family here, your connection with your family. The second one is your health, so important. The third one is your spirituality. The fourth one could be your community and your role as a friend and your love life. So if you want, it's your professional area or studies. So if you want to have a change in your life, imagine you want to have a change in your career and all the rest of your areas are very grounded and well established, it's easy for you to do a change. But if you have a problem in your health, so it's not easy in three legs to stand still. And if you don't have a family to support you, only two legs, you're not able to do changes. So what I love to do when I'm coaching someone and seeing someone as a whole and evaluate all those areas in their life and see... how they're playing in their lives, like how they're spinning the plates, to see if they're putting energy in all those areas. And once they decided to do a change in one specific area, it's important to be grounded in all the others. I don't know if I answered your question, but I think this approach of seeing is so important. Utkarsh Narang (42:33.536) you Utkarsh Narang (42:46.144) know it did but I want to come back to this I want to come back to the hand so you said the thumb was the family and the index finger was can we do that again Betina (42:56.761) So, yes, the first one is your family and your love life, then your work and your studies, your spirituality, your community and your friends and your health. Utkarsh Narang (43:01.656) huh. Utkarsh Narang (43:07.796) Mm-hmm. Utkarsh Narang (43:12.32) Hmm. Betina (43:13.741) So those five areas. It's like when you do the Wheel of Life. In my case, I do in five areas. Because it's easy to use the hand to represent. And here inside is that energy in the middle. Remember when we talk about connecting to the person with the deeper energy? That's inside the middle of your hand. Without that, you cannot move. Utkarsh Narang (43:15.648) Got it. Utkarsh Narang (43:21.14) Got it. Got it. I love that. Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (43:29.95) Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (43:33.696) Hmm. Betina (43:39.376) But if you're aware that you need need grounders in all those areas and you need to put energy in all those areas, this makes a huge difference. Not just focusing on work. When they ask me, are you a business coach? I said, no, I'm not because I cannot see a person just in the work environment. I see the person as a whole. Utkarsh Narang (43:47.904) Absolutely. Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (43:56.16) you Utkarsh Narang (44:00.982) Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's beautiful. As we're talking about these cycles and I love this metaphor of the hand and I'm going to use it and borrow it from you. As we go down a few decades from now, Betina, and as we get to the final closure of our conversation today, which has been a deeply beautiful and revealing, thoughtful conversation. If that 80 year old Betina, the eight zero year old, and I don't know which country Betina will be at 80 years old. But if that Betina from the future were to come to you right now and give you one piece of advice on how to lead the rest of your years, what would her advice be to you? Betina (44:43.759) Don't talk much. Utkarsh Narang (44:48.33) Tell me more. Betina (44:50.105) because the secret of life is in silence. Betina (44:57.689) We could be doing this podcast here for a whole hour just looking to each other and different feelings will come in a full hour, in 45 minutes. If we stay looking to each other in 45 minutes, different emotions will come. We could cry, we could laugh without speaking for 45 minutes and it will be amazing. Betina (45:24.011) And I learned that on the silence, the magic happens. so I would speak less. That's my advice for myself. That's when I find myself in meditation, when I'm with the clients and I'm able to talk less, we go deeper. Utkarsh Narang (45:49.409) I don't feel like talking anymore. Let's take 10 seconds. Let's take 30 seconds, maybe Let's just stay quiet for 30 seconds. And then listeners, stay with us because I'm to come and do a closure. Utkarsh Narang (46:21.3) That's the first time on a broadcast that we have had this long a silence. Betina (46:27.501) And I was feeling on my heart, gratefulness, gratefulness for meeting you. I learned so much with the small conversations we had, like how you're using technology, how you did your amazing planner, how you're doing your podcast. I admire what you're doing as a coach, utkarsh You're doing a great job. I hope people have the chance. Utkarsh Narang (46:28.052) To everyone. Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (46:48.64) Thank you. Truly appreciate Betina (46:53.583) to really interact more with you and this podcast will reach as many people as needed to support them along their change. Utkarsh Narang (47:04.544) Thank you. That's so beautiful. Yeah, the silence we had was golden. To everyone who spent the last 50 minutes of their life listening to us, let's listen to the 80-year-old Betina's advice. Don't talk much. Sometimes just listen, because listening is really hard. Whenever you're thinking of your life, think of the metaphor of the hand. What are you really prioritizing? You must think of that. There are phases of change. You will go through the contemplation and the pre-contemplation, the preparation, the action and the maintenance. Stay on them. Whenever you think what are you doing in life and the path you want to choose for yourself, think of that funeral day. It might be closer than you imagined. And if it's farther, like maybe 100 years from now, 80 years from now, then live the next 80 years doing the best that you can. And to all the fears and everything that you are facing, face them because that's the only way you will experiment with them. You will expose yourself to them and you will overcome them. Remember, eight-year-old Betina said that I wish I would have done this earlier. And the eight-year-old is telling us to be doing all of this in silence. If you want to connect with Betina, all the links will be in the show notes. And if you're on a podcast platform, share it with someone who might enjoy listening to this. If you're on YouTube, put your name in the comments. I'd love to go back and see if you're listening to this and we'll continue to build bigger and bigger podcasts, bigger and bigger conversations. Utkarsh Narang (48:45.45) with a deeper and deeper message. This is Betina and Utkarsh signing off.