Utkarsh Narang (00:01.086) In March of 2023, when I moved to Australia from India, after a few months, I had the opportunity of appearing for a TEDx audition. And as I walked into that door, I was nervous and anxious as hell. And there someone jumped out of his Tesla and walked alongside with me into the room. I thought he was a speaker because he was thoughtful, but he was there to learn and to grow, which is what struck me about Divesh. Today I have the joy and the pleasure of having the Divesh in at the IgnitedNeurons Podcast. He's a tech entrepreneur. He moved to Australia 15 years ago. He's been invested in how can he make people's lives, migrants life better. And he's written a book as well. And the big memory that we'll put some pictures here that I always, whenever I think of Divesh, I think of him and Brett Lee sharing the stage. Divesh, How are you today, my friend. Divesh Sareen (00:55.95) Yeah, I'm great. And thanks for having me, Utkarsh Utkarsh Narang (00:58.116) Absolutely. Looking forward to the conversation and learning through your experiences and the journey that you've had in this beautiful country that both of us call home. Divesh Sareen (01:07.241) Likewise. Utkarsh Narang (01:08.324) Awesome. So the first question kind of be, it's like the bookend question, the one we open up the conversation with and to see where the Divesh right now is, is if that eight year old little boy that Divesh I'm assuming growing up in India and correct me if I'm wrong, if that eight year old boy were to come to you right now and try and have a conversation with you, what do you think will emerge through that conversation? Divesh Sareen (01:32.046) I think I'll probably tell him to have more fun than he is. Like as a kid I was pretty naughty but then I think as you grow you start getting serious when the real world hits you. So I would probably say learn to enjoy the life along with it as well. It's probably the one thing I would say. But I think as we grow older we get too serious about so-called trying to be mature and this and that. So yeah that would be the one advice I would give myself. Utkarsh Narang (02:02.076) Yeah, it's very interesting because I think to me, I actually, over the weekend, attended a concert. Neha Kakkar was in town in Melbourne, Niharish. I was there. So it was fascinating because there were about maybe thousand people there and each one of them were dancing on their toes and doing what not. But I'm not someone who I'll enjoy the music. But that part of me does not get expressed very easily. So Divesh Sareen (02:13.304) Okay, yes. Utkarsh Narang (02:29.896) So what happens while growing up? And maybe you can share bit about your own journey. What happens that we all become so serious about life? Divesh Sareen (02:37.87) I think the more you learn, sometimes you end up learning too much. You're probably like, you are being judged by someone or you're being more conscious or more self aware. Whereas when you're a kid, you don't know much and you just yourself, if you've got to say something to someone without being judged or someone saying something, you just end up doing it. You want mischievous about this or that. I think like you're more Utkarsh Narang (03:06.642) the way your audio is going in and out. Divesh Sareen (03:06.678) rather than who you are. Divesh Sareen (03:10.716) is it better now? Utkarsh Narang (03:12.988) Yeah, yeah. So maybe we can pick it up from where you were saying, I think that was very thoughtful learning too much. Maybe we can pick up this answer again. Divesh Sareen (03:21.154) Yeah, I think as we grow as an adult, we end up learning a lot, sometimes too much. A big part of that is someone who you're meant to be or someone who you think you should be. You start putting that things in your head. And whereas on the other side, when you're a child, there's no agenda or goals or you just yourself, you want to have fun. That's why even like your schoolmates are like one of your most realistic friends that you'll have in your life. It's without any any output in mind without any goals or what you could drive out of that relationship. So I think as you grow old, I think you just learn a lot more than you probably should sometimes. What about you? Like what were you like as a kid? Like you mentioned about Neha Kakkar's thing. Obviously you like you can't be throwing yourself down sitting down letting your hair down or But what were you like as a kid? Utkarsh Narang (04:19.164) Yeah, I think, I was a, I was a quiet kid, completely an introvert, like big time. Like I would just want to be in my own zone, not, not, kind of go out and talk to other people. But it was, when I finished school and I got to uni, I remember August some, some 25 years ago. I think I made a commitment to myself, Divesh at that moment that I'm going to be as ex. as much of an extrovert as I can and still find energy to thrive in that introvert. I like kind of, I remember day one, I would go to the seniors. Okay. So you, you do ragging and that was something that was very prevalent in India at that time. you want to rag me? I'm here. I was born to be ragged is what my kind of, kind of, ask of them was and they were like, what is wrong with this person? You're in your first year here and yes, we are your seniors, but we don't know. So yeah, I completely shifted myself during that time, I think. But I think what you're saying is, I love that thought that we sometimes end up learning too much, which almost like attaches us to this, this future self of ours and makes us judge ourselves is what I'm hearing you say. Divesh Sareen (05:30.774) definitely. like knowing about you, like you're someone who pushes yourself. You know how you were just mentioning you put yourself out there? You mentioned the TEDx talk in the starting of the introduction. That's the reason you actually put yourself out there. You did one. Because I'm still contemplating maybe one day I'll do it. There has to be the perfect version of me, which is actually standing on that stage. Utkarsh Narang (05:54.238) But does that perfect version even exist? Or will that exist? Divesh Sareen (05:58.194) I think I'm almost there now. Well, some of things where you've actually added value before you get up on the stage. Utkarsh Narang (06:09.554) There's still something happening. Your sound is going in and out. Like you'll say a word, I'll catch that, but then the next one skips. Divesh Sareen (06:19.438) I don't know why. OK, well, we'll just try again. Utkarsh Narang (06:23.218) Let's try again. Yeah, let's try this answer again. I don't even know everyone. Yeah. Divesh Sareen (06:27.394) So you asked me if the perfect version exists. So I think as long as you can look yourself in the mirror, the perfect version is where you've added value to other people's life. Will they remember you the day you're gone? So I think to a level, we're getting there, especially with migrants' life. Utkarsh Narang (06:44.488) Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Interesting. Interesting. Yeah. A perfect version exists maybe, maybe in the mirror. And when you feel that you've reached that level, that's when you're, you're kind of boundless. Would that be fair for me to assume? Divesh Sareen (07:01.166) So I think having that, you can answer to yourself that, if I'm up on the stage, some you want to be before you get there, have you done that? Well, so that's my version of the perfect version. Utkarsh Narang (07:11.55) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (07:15.304) Hmm. Got it. Got it. you, brought up, migrants life just now. Just help me understand. Maybe, maybe we'll, we'll speak to those who are either thinking about moving cities, countries, or are in the midst of it or have just moved. What, what was it like, years ago? No, even more, maybe 17 years ago, I think when you moved to, to Australia, what was it like? What, what, what kind of pushed you? Divesh Sareen (07:36.578) Yes. Utkarsh Narang (07:43.09) to push yourself so far away from that comfort zone. Divesh Sareen (07:46.958) It's to be able to do better for myself and my family. That was driven by the core purpose. Growing up in India, thinking about going to a developed country where I could build a foundation faster for myself and then, know, my family part of it was the main reason. You'll obviously hear about all these cases where the underachievers even before me have done a lot. So that kind of was good to have some sort of knowledge. even though there wasn't enough at that time. But yeah, very different experience than what is now. So the Indian diaspora, well, people from Indian heritage in measurement at least have grown very rapidly in the last, I would say about 20, 25 years roughly. Whereas that wasn't the case. It was like gradual growing. It was good to be able to see someone from an Indian background, just to be able to have a chat. It was a very, very small niche. that's definitely, that's something that has changed over the years. Utkarsh Narang (08:52.03) And do we now almost have like, like the opposite problem, because I think now it's, a, it's, I hear this, I have a family who are in Canada who feel like there are more Indians in Canada than, than there are Canadians. And I think we're on that similar track for us. Would you agree? And what, what's your thought on that? Divesh Sareen (09:10.702) I would say yes, that population has definitely grown very rapidly. So the answer to your question is yes, it is kind of that thing now. But I think it's still evenly spaced. There's people from different backgrounds and heritage, in Melbourne at least, that I know a like. You just want to see all Divesh Sareen (09:40.73) of it. But I think Melbourne, each sort of area and region has got its own diversity and its own way, like how everything is. And it's like going to a different region altogether. For example, from Melbourne city, like say half an hour, you get to the beach, one hour further down, you get to the Dandenong ranges and they're like two unique, like total backgrounds and everything like to get to experience. So I think we're pretty lucky. And even the kind of people you see in these different regions are totally like different. Utkarsh Narang (10:15.038) I 100 % agree with that. even the food, the places you can, it's such a privilege because when we were back home, we were in Delhi. And so if you were to say, go to a beach, you'd have to take a flight and there's no other way. And here you are in Melbourne, you drive for like 10 minutes and you're at the beach. we find that to be like full of gratitude and be very lucky to be calling this beautiful city home. But for someone who's maybe thinking about that move right now, with all the... geopolitical shifts that the world's going through here in 2025. What do you think are the big challenges that one should be very thoughtful of when they're migrating between two countries? And you're someone who's heard so many stories of being empowered, of success, but I'm pretty sure there are enough stories of someone who might not have succeeded in the same way. what would be your thoughts on that? Like what should someone look at when they're moving countries now? Divesh Sareen (11:12.686) From personal life, I would probably suggest when you're thinking or moving, already start living that life wherever you are in a way. So what really helped me was when I was in uni, I would do a night shift teaching mathematics to kids in US in a call, not a call center is what they call it, business process outsourcing at that time. And then in the morning, then I'll go to my uni and then I'll come home in the afternoon and sleep. So Utkarsh Narang (11:35.07) Mm. Divesh Sareen (11:41.514) Imagine if you've never done something like that and you come to a country like Australia where life is meant to be like this, where you will probably do a night shift now and then, then you will go to your uni in the morning or you'll be expected to do your assignments all of the circle. It's very overwhelming. Bearing yourself because say in case of India, the mistakes you do there would cost you in rupees. Whereas the mistakes and the time you take is costing you in dollars over here. That's probably a number one I remember when coming here, who was close friend, went away. One year later, he actually moved back because Australia was a failure for him because he was used to not working a lot, was spoiled by the parents, had a lot of servants at home who would even pick his dishes. So it was such a big shock that he could not comprehend. So I think the answer to the question is probably prepare yourself as much as you can. There's so much available right now, whether you go on your socials or even with a monologue where our aim is to actually showcase role models, to showcase the real stories, not what you would see in a Bollywood movie, that you just come here with dreams that the whole scene is set around you and... Divesh Sareen (13:07.382) It's all not roses. So it's about painting that real picture. The more ready you are, you know, be more have practice English more, take more classes or like watch more English movies, I would say, like to be able to actually have that muscle that when it comes to actually performing. The more you've done it, the more it's going to help you. Utkarsh Narang (13:16.498) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (13:24.03) Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (13:29.552) Hmm. Very, interesting. So, so one I'm hearing you say it's the way of life. You got to adapt to that way of life, even before you actually land on these, on, on any country that's outside of where your maybe home is. And then the culture that is a shift there. So maybe if it's the language, the way it's spoken, all of that needs to be thought through. And I think the example that you give, which can be, so we have listeners who are across the world, which can be slightly difficult for. someone maybe in North America or Australia or Europe to figure out. But in India, you have enough help at your disposal where you actually don't have to pick up the dishes, let alone washing them. And so I have seen and I have spoken to friends who feel that like, why would you go to a country outside of India where you don't even have that privilege is what I think it comes down to Divesh. Divesh Sareen (14:25.324) Yes, you can call it privilege or you can call it being spoiled. Utkarsh Narang (14:30.718) Yeah, yeah, different ways of looking at the same thing because for someone who's kind of lived with that part, for them, it's a privilege and that's what I am born with and I should have for the rest of my life. And for someone else, it could be completely different. But in terms of just maybe the stories that you've seen, Divesh, and how it relates to how you've seen your journey kind of open up. Are there any stories that kind of stay with you where you would like to share that with our listeners today? Divesh Sareen (15:02.126) Could you tell me more again about the question? Like what else? Utkarsh Narang (15:05.712) In terms of stories of migrant life that you've covered, I was at the exhibition that you had, one book's out. Do you recall any specific story that you feel kind of moved you also in terms of when you heard it? Divesh Sareen (15:22.668) Short answer is all of them. Like till date we've showcased 42 stories. And whenever I read it, some of it I see myself in it, because I've lived through the journey. But at the same time, you look back and be like, geez, man, like people go through so much of Issues where, you you'll have a refugee say from a Vietnam War. And whether it be like a two year old kid where... She actually went to the with her grandparents because that was the only means of survival on the board. But then she came a year later to actually meet her actual parents where she forgot what they looked like and can't even recognize them. And then you'll see someone who came as a student and actually became a monk or how a lot of migrants who use their resilience to first, willing to live from nothing. And then usually what's possible in a couple of generations, they try to do it in one which is like building a business. Actually, we had a CEO who manages 700 employees now and started from like nothing and he came to help his sister settle in a new country and was sent by dad. So all these stories where someone ran away from family violence and actually came to Australia to survive because He knew that he wouldn't be able to live much longer in India or his life would be full of stress. I can generally keep talking about it for half an hour, but I think for your listeners, one thing I'd probably like to say is how and why migrants' life started. So I had the idea, know, so as a kid who came here in 2008, everything, you know, I would have said was done, say about seven, eight years ago, I was able to... Utkarsh Narang (17:01.822) Mm-hmm. Divesh Sareen (17:13.89) make my family part of the Australian dream. And the whole idea was to educate the locals what an actual migrant goes through. So every now and then you'll hear a joke about this Uber driver could be your cousin or this or something similar, but you're like, okay, you need to educate people as to what you've gone through and what the whole picture behind a person is. So I came up with the idea of writing a blog, which about five and a half years later ended up being a two volume book called the Indian mate. Utkarsh Narang (17:21.566) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (17:43.678) Hmm. Divesh Sareen (17:44.27) And then since writing the book, whenever I'll go and talk to people and deliver talks and stuff, people will be like, oh, well, who's going to write my story? And then working in product development, you kind of see there's a genuine issue of people not being able to voice their life story. That's how I started my... Utkarsh Narang (17:53.0) Hmm. Divesh Sareen (18:05.406) some story but if you go to the website you'll be like a director actually read about yeah I love for your audience to probably tell us who they think is favorite Utkarsh Narang (18:16.958) Beautiful. No, fascinating. I did not know about that, that the book was first a blog or five and a half years. Tell me more about that. What were you writing about when you were writing the blog? Divesh Sareen (18:30.222) I was more reliving my life. So I never actually ended up doing the blog. It was, I just started on a piece of paper where you have a sheet and a cardboard and you're just writing your thoughts every day. You're reliving your life. It's about living like what you did well, what you didn't do well, the challenges you went through, what other people have taught you that you can pass on, culture of the two countries that I'm part of, the issue of belongingness. whereas if you see the cover of the two volumes, half of my face is the Indian flag and the other half is the Australian flag. That's more to show that how you're always like in between. I'm not Indian anymore, but I'm not Australian enough. So that part that actually hits a lot of people at the core as a migrant, where there's some things that obviously because you haven't grown up here, you wouldn't know. Utkarsh Narang (19:16.862) you Divesh Sareen (19:29.62) And at the same time, you've been a lot of your mature life here, your added life. You've learned so much so that when you go back, you feel that you don't fit in there as well. So it's always that balancing act that you're playing as a migrant as to what role you have to perform today or what you have to do. So that's basically the story of The Indian Mate, where my goal is to help the British wherever he is in any part Utkarsh Narang (19:38.878) Mm. Utkarsh Narang (19:51.486) you Divesh Sareen (19:59.576) thinking this with a thousand bucks. Utkarsh Narang (20:07.326) Beautiful, beautiful. That's very interesting. It's such a dichotomy and I've been here only two years and I can feel how this will only shift over the years. So not being an Indian anymore and not fully being an Australian. How do you play that balancing act? Like what works for you? Divesh Sareen (20:27.986) think it's just more about being in the moment and, you know, I'm spending my day in and out every day when you get to work. you're learning from other people around you and I think you just developed this persona. you're this, Aussie guy with an Indian heritage, is kind of the way I look at myself now. So you acknowledge the parts that have been part of your life all this time. And at the same time, you acknowledge the country you're in. and actually follow its cultures and traditions. Utkarsh Narang (21:01.47) Yeah, an Australian guy with an Indian heritage. I like that statement. If you were to do this all over again, Divesh, 17 years ago, come back to Australia and start this journey, what would you do differently? Divesh Sareen (21:18.894) First thing, I would not do it again. It's very hard. That's probably the full stop of it. like say if I was to go and change something in what I've done, I would probably take more risks than I have. I think as a migrant, your risk appetite is always low, but that's also because you don't know much. Utkarsh Narang (21:33.374) Mm-hmm. Utkarsh Narang (21:38.238) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (21:46.622) Hmm. Divesh Sareen (21:48.17) even if you're driving, say, in a 55 speed in a 60 zone and the police stops you just for a check up, you're scared that you did something wrong. But that's because of the fear of the unknown. so I think that's one thing I like to do more. So change that mindset. Which I think be making mistake. Even if have, I think I would probably change. Utkarsh Narang (22:03.134) Hmm. Mm. Utkarsh Narang (22:15.294) Hmm. And I'm still, the first statement is still simmering through my head right now. Not do this all over again. Very, very interesting. then I'm thinking about that. I'm thinking about that. Two years in, I'm not able to say that yet. Maybe when I'm reaching 15, then I'll say the statement. Divesh Sareen (22:28.366) Thank Divesh Sareen (22:37.73) Yes, but it's true. It's not an easy job to come to a new country where you've left all your friends, all your support network, everything basically you knew, and you basically signed up to be one of the deepest challenges. Where it's like your assignments, do your whole say your masters or whatever you're studying. You're trying to work that out, probably your fees. or whatever your expectations are from your family back home, trying to fulfill that. And at the same time, you're trying to learn a new culture, build a whole social circle, everything. And it just doesn't stop. Yeah. So I used to be one of those students who will be sleeping on the track because that's kind of like my sleep catch up time. So yeah, like, but I love those days. It's, it's, built, made me resilient how much I am today and just played a role in, you know, the sex. Utkarsh Narang (23:17.704) It doesn't. Divesh Sareen (23:35.754) so-called successful version, people call it, that we've all been able to achieve as migrants. Utkarsh Narang (23:43.13) and I resonate with that because it does not stop the challenges and how you continue to adapt as well. And plus this, I I'm using maybe a stronger word, there is definitely an identity crisis that you go through when you shift countries, because I'm going back to India in a few weeks, Nivesh. And part of me is like so anxious of being back, like what's going to happen for even for just two weeks. And yeah, these are real challenges. And I think the friendships, Divesh, tell me more about it. And I know you have a deep network here in Australia, but do you feel that the depth of that network, the friend group, the support system that you have equates to what you had in India? And I know you moved at a very early stage in life, so it's an apple store and just kind of comparison, but just tell me a little bit more about that. Divesh Sareen (24:35.586) not now. don't like miss it as much because over the years, you know, you people who've stood by you. Like, you know, I've literally lived half of my adult life here now. So, or more here now, because in India, you're like first five, 10 years you were a kid anyways. so I don't miss that as much now, but still there's always that component. Like we spoke in the starting about your friends at school. Utkarsh Narang (24:50.302) Hmm. Divesh Sareen (25:06.272) other ones, you've done all that silly stuff where they know you inside out, they've seen you grown up. So that part would obviously be there. But I think I've got the second best thing of people that you can count on in a foreign land or so called or country you now call home by choice, where you basically like interact with so many people and you end up with that little niche and pool of people who you know will be there for you like you would be for them. Utkarsh Narang (25:36.126) Mm. Divesh Sareen (25:37.152) So every now and then yes moment, man, I didn't realize when I, I remember being as old young landing with a lot of dreams. And by the time you get back up and running, like you forget about all that whole life went away. And, know, like, haven't seen my friends you talk about, or they talk about coming here or you talk about going back and, and then the rat race keeps going. Utkarsh Narang (25:53.907) Yeah. Divesh Sareen (26:05.888) where you're meant to do this or maybe next year, maybe the year after. And for you know, it's five, 10 years and you miss that, but you still can't do much about it most of the time. Utkarsh Narang (26:18.12) Yeah, yeah. The rat race. It's one of those races that we all want to get out of, but also I think are making choices to get more intertwined. What are your thoughts? Divesh Sareen (26:33.325) Oh, of course, we definitely are. Because we're kind of people who always want to see how much we can push ourselves. So even though you'll reach, say, states 10, you're like, OK, can I reach stage 11 or 12 or 13 in my version of my game or my book? Utkarsh Narang (26:52.072) Correct. Right, fascinating. And then through it all, I also see a deep-seated love for cricket. So when Indian Australia play, who is they were supporting? That's diplomatically correct. Divesh Sareen (27:03.726) But, again, you can't support me. No, it's actually the right answer. When I think of it, who I should support. India's given me a lot. It's something that I've always done. There was a time where you'll see Glenn McGraw, Brett Lee, or Shane Mohn, get Sachin or someone else out and you'll be disheartened over it. But now, Utkarsh Narang (27:11.538) Hmm. Divesh Sareen (27:32.012) I also realized that this country has given me so much. I am Australian by choice and say tomorrow we go to a war, I'll be fighting from the Australia side. So all those things when you look at it, it just only makes sense to support both countries. In India versus Pakistan, I definitely support India, as you would guess. But yeah, just when India and Australia are playing, you really can't pick a side. Yeah, it's that position we are in now. Utkarsh Narang (27:51.934) Hmm. Divesh Sareen (28:01.078) as migrants. Utkarsh Narang (28:01.254) Yeah. Yeah. And in terms of you, spoke about Brett Lee and if Brett Lee would get Sachin out, you would be heartbroken. I know that, but very recently I saw you and Brett together on a stage. So what did the conversation feel like when you were talking? Did you tell him that you should have bowled slower to Sachin? Utkarsh Narang (28:21.79) you Divesh Sareen (28:26.966) It wasn't a list because just getting a photo. That was such a big deal. As a kid, I've tried to instead bully him and do a run up so like you're the cool baller, cool all. Just to be with him, he's such a great guy. Like he was very supportive at my event and stuff and you know, he came down from Sydney for it. Like it was just, it wasn't even the bucket list. You know how people It was more than that for me. That little DaVish who probably like would have if you would have actually told me like two or three years ago you'll be doing that I would have said you're joking. yeah it was unreal like I remember it till the day I Utkarsh Narang (29:12.382) Amazing. Yeah, I can imagine that. As you spoke about that eight-year-old, Divesh, now, and if you were to kind of keep moving forward, Divesh, if the eighty-year-old Divesh were to now come to you and give you a piece of advice that you should follow till you meet that eight-year-old self, what do you think he'll say? Divesh Sareen (29:32.302) Do you want to do this again? Because I think you cut out. I think you've gone on mute. Utkarsh Narang (29:35.45) Okay, sure. Divesh Sareen (29:41.452) You've gone on mute. I can't hear you. Utkarsh Narang (29:48.094) And there's nothing that's changed here. Divesh Sareen (29:53.046) Not sure what happened, but I can't hear you. But give me a sec, let me check my speaker. It's on AirPods. It's on AirPods. Utkarsh Narang (29:54.802) Can you? Utkarsh Narang (30:00.766) Can you hear me now? No? Testing 1, 2, No? Do you want to remove them? Yeah. Divesh Sareen (30:02.318) Divesh Sareen (30:08.856) Give me one sec, let me take it off. Let's start some troubleshooting. Utkarsh Narang (30:15.87) Testing 1, 2, 3, testing 1, 2, 3, testing 1, 2, Can you hear me, Divesh? Utkarsh Narang (30:37.266) Testing one, two, three, can you hear me now? Divesh Sareen (30:52.366) Is that better? Yeah, I can hear you. Give me one sec, let me connect the AirPods. Utkarsh Narang (30:54.686) Can you hear me? Okay. Utkarsh Narang (31:07.838) Testing one, two, three, testing one, two, three. Divesh Sareen (31:09.838) i think it's fine this is Divesh Sareen (31:17.016) Funny enough, it's not letting me connect the airports now. Can you hear me? Utkarsh Narang (31:23.047) I can hear you. Divesh Sareen (31:24.258) Can you hear me on headphones? Utkarsh Narang (31:27.55) I can hear you, can you hear me? Divesh Sareen (31:30.742) I can. Okay, as long as you can hear me, I can hear you. It's just that the device selected is not the AirPods. Utkarsh Narang (31:36.529) Okay. So now you're hearing me on your AirPods or through the speaker. Divesh Sareen (31:43.776) I can hear you on the AirPods as long as you can hear me. Okay, awesome. Utkarsh Narang (31:45.904) Okay, and yours. Yeah, I can hear you. It's gone a little, little at a distance, but we will, we're on the final question. So I'm okay. think on that. Okay. So we'll pick it up from. Yeah. Divesh Sareen (31:55.618) Give me one second. Let me see if I can change it. It's not letting me change the device. But yeah, let's go with the final question. I'll try to speak louder. Is that better? Okay. Utkarsh Narang (32:02.334) guys know. Utkarsh Narang (32:07.334) Okay, perfect. Sounds good. Yeah, yeah. Okay, cool. So, wish as we were speaking about this 80 year old, Divesh who had the dream of meeting readily and he would not have believed that the the the elder self would reach there. But if you were to go now a few decades into the future and say the 80 year old, Divesh were to come to you right now and give you one piece of advice on how you should lead the rest of your years till you meet the 80. What would he say? Divesh Sareen (32:36.27) That's a very deep question. I don't think I've thought that far, but I think it would be like, we made it a life worth living. That would probably be the one thing because one thing I do know is that I to push myself as much as I can every day, humanly possible. So yeah, I think that's definitely one of the things that come in my mind because I always do look at it that, okay. there's a chance I would regret this I'm just gonna give it a go. So I think that's one of the things that would come up in that conversation. But yeah I think it will still be more about have more fun because I think I do get too bogged down with work and this and that but I guess you can't have a board the world right if you try to do everything you want to do and you can't be on both the sides of it. Utkarsh Narang (33:09.63) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (33:31.582) Yeah, as you were saying, thank you for sharing that. As you were saying, it's such a balancing act that now if anyone asks me, Utkarsh, how are you? I just respond with building life one day at a time because no one day looks identical. And there is no one day where you can almost like, just like let the guard down completely and just like completely detached from what's happening. So I understand that. But I'm just curious, like you said something where, which is... just ringing in my ear. You said I try to do as much as that is humanly possible. What does that really mean, Divesh? Double click on it for me. Divesh Sareen (34:11.426) Humanly possible as much as like we come up with ideas that haven't been tried before. For example, the next book that I'm writing is one chapter on life of each migrant and the book's called Migrants Life. So I don't know if someone's even tried something like that before. We've already got 14 people who are part of it that I'm working and actually going to record their life story. for five months with them, where one hour each month we have a session going into their life, each part of it. And then I come home and listen to it three, four times and then I write their whole life story. So those kinds of things that we come up with, like usually you'll have a team of 10 people, someone doing the branding, marketing, website, this, that. In our case, it's only me doing almost all of it. So... Utkarsh Narang (35:07.164) Wow. Divesh Sareen (35:08.142) When I say humanly possible, there are days where it's hard to get out of bed because you have so much going on in your head. But we love it and we still give it a go. And we still bring it home and we still somehow get the support where people believe in our crazy ideas. And it's been working great. Utkarsh Narang (35:28.926) Amazing, amazing. Thank you for sharing. You always inspire me. So everyone who's listening, do anything and everything that's possible, that's humanly possible for you, and keep pushing, pushing yourself and the ideas that you bring about in the world, I think. And everything that Divesh and I spoke about, we'll put the links into the show notes so that you can go and check out Migrants Life, go and check out The Indian Mate, and connect with Divesh. Divesh, thank you so much for your time. Truly appreciate it. And yeah, hopefully you keep touching lives in the beautiful ways that you've always done. Divesh Sareen (35:58.892) Yeah and to you as well, because thank you so much for having me and thank you to the listeners for listening. I was able to add five cents in your life. Utkarsh Narang (36:08.414) Beautiful, thank you. So we'll just stay here for a minute. What we'll do is we will allow the recording. So I think when you change the airport, so it created a second recording file. Yeah, okay, okay. So I think we should be okay on that. Let me see if there is anything left. Divesh Sareen (36:08.706) Great, thank you. Divesh Sareen (36:21.738) Yeah, because it made me refresh it. So yeah. Divesh Sareen (36:29.71) probably should have saved because what do you think probably should have saved for it Utkarsh Narang (36:32.766) Sorry. Utkarsh Narang (36:36.179) That's okay. That's okay. Maybe maybe get a get a light. That's all I'll add. Divesh Sareen (36:39.926) Yeah, no, like you always do that well. Like I don't look at all these things, but I should. I mentioned that last time. Yes. So where do you have the light? Utkarsh Narang (36:45.532) Yeah, I think they're very important. I think they're very important. in the. So it's right in front of me. Divesh Sareen (36:52.256) Okay. that one. Utkarsh Narang (36:56.318) Yeah. Just from, uh, what came out $50. And then I have a window as well. Yeah. So you should definitely, definitely put it on. I think it'll be, it'll be valuable. It'll be a great addition because the, if the background is more lit than your face, then I'm unable to pick up the expressions and then the deep connect does not happen. You do. Absolutely. Absolutely. Perfect. my, no, absolutely. The only challenge I'm Divesh Sareen (36:59.576) No, no, I actually have it. Divesh Sareen (37:10.637) Yeah. Divesh Sareen (37:14.454) Yeah, and I look darker probably as well. okay. No, no, that's good to know. Thank you so much for your time as well. Utkarsh Narang (37:24.518) I'm hoping I don't face in the, when I look at the recording is the audio issue that was happening in the initial part. It continued happening one or two times after that as well. So I'll keep you posted. The, the, the video will go for editing. What day is it today? What day? Tuesday. by, I think by next week only. And then I'll get back to you. I'm hoping nothing will be happening. No challenges will be there. And then the podcast should release in about three weeks. my colleague Anisha will reach out to you and ask you for a short bio. Divesh Sareen (37:40.664) Yup. Utkarsh Narang (37:54.598) and a couple of high resolution pictures that we can put on the video. Awesome. Divesh Sareen (37:58.07) So do you get this editing done from India, course? How much does it roughly cost if, like I'm asking for my podcast if I needed to do that. Utkarsh Narang (38:01.703) India, yes. Utkarsh Narang (38:06.078) So I have a full-time employee who works with me. recommend, see typically the reels are about 1000 to 1500 rupees a reel, just a single reel if they have to edit. I think the whole podcast would not be more than 5,000 rupees, like under a hundred dollars, they wish, easily. Divesh Sareen (38:25.518) Because for the book, part of our offering is, I'll actually get you on the podcast. Utkarsh Narang (38:29.651) Mm-hmm. Utkarsh Narang (38:33.254) Let me, let me.