Utkarsh Narang (00:01.75) Hey Dan, welcome to the show. I'm really excited to what we have today in our conversation. I know we'll talk about talent, we'll talk about your journey, we'll talk about recruitment and left, right and center. But maybe you just take like a quick minute to give a highlight of your journey so far to the audience. Dan Nuroo (00:22.164) So my journey probably well here took a long way around I suppose. I'm just past 50. So born and bred in Tassie moved over to Melbourne for uni. Met the love of my life my wife then first year so my son's very upset that I was only met her and that was the end of my dating journey. Did an arts degree around the HR kind of field thought I wanted to get into HR. My career didn't start that way. I ended up in recruitment, had no idea what they was. But after a few years I've settled into it and now it's the career. So I've been building on that since 97 would have been when my career first started. So it's, I'm old. Yeah, it's been around for a bit. Utkarsh Narang (01:11.352) And did you ever imagine through all those accolades, there'll come a day when you and I will be having this conversation on the Ignite Neurons podcast. Dan Nuroo (01:20.739) No, no, I've, I talk to anyone, I talk to everyone, but yes, didn't, wasn't sure about podcasting and stuff like that way back when. Utkarsh Narang (01:29.474) Beautiful. The world continues to evolve. But you know, as you say that, I'm just fascinated. I have two boys, Dan, and they also regret that all you did was like straight away date our mother and no one else. Where's the story? What do we learn from you now? Dan Nuroo (01:33.367) us. Dan Nuroo (01:46.072) Just learn you gotta be lucky. Yeah, luck helps a lot. Utkarsh Narang (01:48.257) Love that. Love that, love that. Through this whole journey, Dan, and the purpose of the podcast is to just humanize this for ourselves first and then our listeners. So the question that I often start with is that, as you said, you've touched 50, if the eight-year-old Dan would be having a conversation with you right now, what kind of conversation will happen between you and the eight-year-old self? Dan Nuroo (02:16.654) The eight year old Dan will be really disappointed. The eight year old Dan hadn't yet come to groups with the sporting dreams won't end up that I never played AFL for Carlton and I never didn't play cricket for Australia. He'd be very, very disappointed at that. He would be worried about the idea of girl germs with, you know, finding a wife and now dating, but he'd be happy with the fact that now I'm now a dad. If you ask my parents when I was a kid, what do want to be when you grow up? It was a dad. That was the answer I gave. wasn't a fireman, I a policeman, it anything like that. It was a dad. So I've got one tick for the young fella. Utkarsh Narang (02:55.448) Perfect, perfect. And this dream about playing sports, tell me a little bit more on that. Dan Nuroo (03:01.158) well, when dreams eventually have to get to reality, right? And reality did hit that I was enthusiastic at best. And yeah, the skill level wasn't exactly there and the drive probably wasn't there either, to be bluntly honest. I enjoyed playing my footy, I enjoyed playing my cricket. Growing up, there wasn't winter, summer, autumn, spring, there was football and cricket. Those were the two seasons. Still passionate about it, but I'm... I'm not built for sport anymore. I went back and played cricket a couple of years ago and my kids had found it great to enjoy by the fact that I kept pulling my calf muscle and they found that hugely amusing. Utkarsh Narang (03:43.384) Hmm, fascinating. It's amazing how, you know, as we grow up, there are so many dreams that we have and they shift and evolve to say the least, think, over the years. But is there a dream that that eight-year-old had Dan that you think you've accomplished or gone beyond, beyond just being the dad? Dan Nuroo (04:06.444) It's hard to go past being beyond being the dad. It's a fairly all encompassing role and it just doesn't stop. suppose I was a couple of years ago, my father passed and I was lucky enough to be able to be with him in the weeks beforehand. He was in Tassie and all that kind of stuff and it was kind of rushed upon us but I was talking to him about his life. Utkarsh Narang (04:08.503) Mm. Dan Nuroo (04:37.678) And one of the, and you know, I've got some more stories about his growing up and all that kind of stuff. And one of the things he said to me was, all I really wanted is for you to have a good childhood. Did you have a good childhood? That's all I really wanted. That was my goal in life for that. And yeah, we didn't have a lot of money growing up. Dad, we were on a single income. My dad was an electrician for his whole life. But we didn't miss for anything, I suppose. He was at every single one of my sporting events. Whether it was overtime or not, I've encountered on one hand the amount of footy games or cricket games he missed. And he wasn't a sporting guy. Dad was zero interest in that kind of stuff before I made him be. So I think that dream, I'm still working on accomplishing. I've got three kids now. There's a... 14 year old, 17, almost 18 year old and a 20 year old. So we're still going through that journey. And I don't think I'll ever stop that journey. Utkarsh Narang (05:42.392) Thank you for sharing. often reflect on, I was feeling a little overwhelmed over the last few weeks and that so much happening in life, am I progressing? And all my progress that I was measuring it against being all the coach that I am was in terms of the work that I was doing. And I was in a coaching conversation and my coach asked me, Utkarsh, what other areas have you progressed in this year? And it just hit me. to see my boys grow up is such a joy. And I then went back and actually saw pictures from January of 2024. And in about 10 months, if you look at kids, how quickly they grow up, you feel like what the hell happened? Where did time go away? Dan Nuroo (06:30.786) It happens. Well, my parents always just tell me it goes quickly and I didn't believe them. But now I'm old. Yeah, it does. It's a blink of an eye. Utkarsh Narang (06:38.774) Yeah, yeah. As we speak about that, what do you think were some early influences or inspiration Dan during those early years when you were a child wanting to be a dad when you grow up? What were those influences that you think shaped your life? Dan Nuroo (06:58.555) Look, I call him my dad a lot and he's one. He's the, him and my grandfather, my pop, they're the conscience, I suppose, that sits on my shoulder. As well as my mum and things, but from a male perspective, my dad's the conscience that sits on my shoulder with pretty much everything. And, you know, what would dad think about this? Utkarsh Narang (07:10.968) Hmm. Dan Nuroo (07:22.974) And yeah, that kind of drives most things, I suppose. How I go about doing things, how I am with others. He wouldn't understand what I He didn't understand what I do for a living, but he didn't need to. He was just happy that I was actually doing something. And I was happy enough doing it, I suppose. yeah, we make choices going along the way in your career. And... Utkarsh Narang (07:38.008) Mm-hmm. Dan Nuroo (07:52.226) that sometimes is you have a choice whether you can work those extra hours or go out with the teams consistently and get executive drinks and all that kind of stuff or travel consistently, get jobs to do that. or you take the time with the family. Those who can do both, good luck to you. My career probably didn't, you know, it didn't take off in the same trajectories as a lot of my mates who are now 50 something and C suites and all that kind of stuff and probably earning twice or more than what I have and all that kind of stuff but. Dan Nuroo (08:38.878) I'm still happy with what we've achieved, what I've achieved as a dad, what we've achieved as a family. at the end of the day, that's kind what it comes down to, I reckon. Utkarsh Narang (08:47.65) Yeah, so powerful. And I have to ask this, Dan, there has to be a realization or a moment or something that leads to that shift, because what I've seen time and again is that, again, it's the outer metric in which we, the double salary. Am I the C-suite? Am I in that corner office? And does it really matter? I mean, that's what, so both of us are thinking in the same lens, but there will be people outside. who would be listening to this and they'll be saying, Utkarsh, Dan, what are you guys saying? I'm a dad, I'm okay. I look at one game maybe every season and that's enough for my child. For me, providing that money, that tuition fee for their studies in the US or wherever they want to go or in Australia is more important. But how did that shift happen? Because I have my own story for that. But what's been your experience? How did that shift happen where you thought like... building that family, being a dad, that's to me more important than just getting that C-suite. Dan Nuroo (09:51.32) I think it was a conscious decision I can't remember actually even thinking that way it's just where I am and don't think for a minute that I don't double think it and then I look at my career over the time and compare it with my mates how are doing this who are able to provide better things in the household and may you know go on holidays once a year or all that kind of stuff you look at all that and and sometimes you do get down on yourself I'm human, it happens. But look, my wife's a lot smarter than me. And every time I get down with that, she'll go, you know what, we've just about got two kids through private school. One to go. You know, we're all right. We've done okay. So She has to reminds me every now and then. I've got her every now and then. yeah, it was never a conscious decision. Utkarsh Narang (10:39.704) Hmm. Hmm. Dan Nuroo (10:49.166) It's just an evolution thereof. I've always wanted to be involved. I've never been a drop off and let go dad. I'm involved in the sporting things they do. I coach an Aussie kick clinic when my son first started, which was a hell of a lot of fun. I was involved everywhere I could through his football journey until just recently. My daughters are now all over softball. I got involved with the club there, I'm president of the local softball club. So I don't see these things for the kids as some, maybe a babysitting service or something like that. If we're up to engaging them in it, I should be involved. It's for the betterment of them. And I get a lot of fun out of it as well. Utkarsh Narang (11:26.477) Mm-hmm. Utkarsh Narang (11:38.008) I 100 % resonate with that. And to those who are listening outside of Australia, and I'm only 18 months old in Australia as we're recording this, getting two kids through private school in Australia is a massive deal. So kudos to Dan and his wife to be able to do that. It's not a simple thing. And then the other thing that I'm taking away from this is, that anyone who's listening, I think it's really important for them to actually define what success looks like for them. And then just... Go down that path because yes, mates are gonna do something that's different, but that's their choice. And you gotta be okay with what you're choosing. What do you think? What would be your two cents advice to have them have that doubt, but still come back to telling themselves like, this is what's important to me. Dan Nuroo (12:27.68) Everyone has doubt, right? You wouldn't be human if didn't. You might put on a facade so no one thinks you ever have a doubt, but I call bullshit on that. Everybody's got a doubt of something, right? You wouldn't be human if you didn't. You question your goal. So you question how you're getting there. You question if you're gonna get there. But that's not a bad thing. know, reevaluation and pushing towards it. as your life changes, you go through different stages of your life and those goals will change. We're at an age now where... you know, you know, looking after kids is one thing. Now they'll, know, one's got his license, the other one's about to get their license, so they'll need us less and less. But our parents are getting older, so they're worrying more about them. And if we travel or something like that, we have to worry about what do we do to our parents. So the different stages of life, as far as that goes with my career, I made this chance now, this choice now to go out on my own. It's a fair jump. It's leaving security, but when I look back on what has been the last few years, there's no such thing as security anyway. So you might as make your own and see what happens. We've had a few hurdles the last few years. But the driving factor behind me was your reaction's important. Stuff will happen to you that's outside of your control. You control how you react. And that sounds cliche, but it's true. I've, and my reaction. Dan Nuroo (14:11.086) I have thought a lot about it. And I had to make my reaction be an example for my kids. They were watching how I reacted. Do I react and throw the toys out of the cots? Or throw my hands up in the air and say, well, that's it, we're cooked. Or do I get to be proactive and start doing something about it? How am gonna move this? Stuff happens in life to everybody. A lot of time you don't know what's going on with people's life. think everyone's great. You look at Facebook, you looked at LinkedIn, you look at Insta. Everyone's got this glorious life. Everyone's got their own stuff. you know, I've been made redundant a few times in the last few years. And I remember one of them, one of them was right. before COVID, way back when. And it took me a little while to find the next job. it was about six weeks. So in the grand scheme of things, not a huge amount of time. But. Dan Nuroo (15:17.13) I know my son was watching and he, so that was a long time ago and he was in early high school. He was so excited for me when I landed the next job. I don't think I've ever had a hug like that from him from that. It was just amazing. He was proud, he was happy, he understood what was going on. He cheered up at the idea and you know, teenage boy to cheer up is fairly important, fairly impressive. That was cool for me thinking on being an example. That was really exciting for me. Not just getting the job, but seeing his reaction out of it. It was a pretty proud moment. Utkarsh Narang (15:56.61) Wow, that's so powerful. And as you share that, there are so many instances when we feel that they're not watching, the kids are not watching, but they're always watching. And I think what I'm also witnessing is that sometimes people treat their kids as kids, but I think they're much more evolved, mature, adult-like, if I were to say, than what we assume them to be. And so I think having these open conversations is so powerful. But as you... speak through this part of your life, Dan, of being a parent, of being a role model. How has this kind of influenced your ability to be with your teams at the workplace, to lead people, to think about talent? What connections can you draw there? Dan Nuroo (16:47.268) Well, there's not a huge difference. People are people. So I deal with people pretty much consistently, I'd like to think. Understanding that everyone's got their own personalities, their own stuff going on. You know, I remember having a team when I first had kids. you know, those early years where they're not sleeping much, therefore you're not sleeping much and, you know, it's a challenging time. I used to go with the saying that sleep's overrated. I've talked myself into it. I'm at work. At work, no one really cares about my night before. I'm here to do a job, that's what they care about. And I'd get the younger guys working for me coming in, we've only got like six hours of sleep last night, I was out, but I six hours in a row. Wow, how lucky are you? So, dealing with the teams there was interesting, but again, it's... Dan Nuroo (17:45.973) It's dealing with people kind of individually that way and understanding what works for them. Cause all through my kids are completely different. You can't have what one size fits all, right? Cause even the way you work with them or your punny issue or your praise or whatever, every one of them is a little bit different. So, you know, I'm like that with teams and you know, I like to feel that And I'm dealing with people, I deal with empathy, but with focus as well. Utkarsh Narang (18:18.797) Yeah, that's interesting that no child is the same. even when you're working with people in the workplace, they're going to be different. so approach that conversation with empathy is what I'm hearing you say. And then when you decided to take this leap and now that you're on your own, how did that emerge? What nudged you to take on that journey? Dan Nuroo (18:40.738) Yeah, a few things. I've probably been thinking about it for a while. Thinking of owning my own destiny as opposed to relying on other businesses. Where I was, what I've been doing as I was an overhead for a business. And when businesses aren't doing as well or the market changes. Utkarsh Narang (18:43.736) Right. Dan Nuroo (19:10.444) people look at shedding overheads or reducing costs and you know, my role wasn't a cheap one. So it was very easy to be targeted. Security wasn't really there. There's lack of security what I'm doing now, but I'm spreading the risk a bit, I suppose. And I was unsure when I got my last redundancy, I wasn't quite sure what to do. I've wanted, I've had the desire to do it, but I wasn't confident to do it. I was sitting with a mate of mine who also had been made redundant and was thinking about work and having this discussion. And he picked up on my change of attitude, I suppose, when I started talking about what I thought I could do with this business. you notice the difference in energy, notice the difference in excitement and you're just going, mate I've never seen you like this so what's stopping you going all in? And I've got, well the bank manager likes to get paid. I can't guarantee you that, you know, I'll get paid every month doing this as yet. And he's going, well you've got a month or so of, every once in pay to go, we want to just go full in for month and see what happens. came home and to my wife and she's gone well duh, why aren't you doing that? It's all or nothing, just go. So I've had the support from her, I had the support from a few mates and I was lucky enough to have some people from my network kind of step up and help me out and get me started as well. So yeah, was the movement and it's still been challenging. There's lots of things I've... hadn't thought about, that I've had to remember, I suppose, and go into. And just to be humble to go through that and just keep building the relationships and see where it ends up to. Utkarsh Narang (21:05.048) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Utkarsh Narang (21:19.165) So powerful. I'm gaining so many lessons. I'm just going to kind of simulate it all. Owning your destiny is where you started. So beautiful to hear that. Then how there was support from your wife, from a few mates, and that made you feel like, yes, I got this and I'm going to go ahead and do that. And then you spoke about the network. What role do you think... Or maybe even better, know again a cliche conversation can come in where the network is your network and this and that. But what did you do right, Dan, that allowed you to tap into your network to, yeah, just act like a launch pad for lack of better words. Dan Nuroo (21:59.613) I've been building it up for a long, time. Has it been a conscious decision? Yes or no, I'm not quite sure. So if I say that, probably not. But I've always liked connecting with people. That's always been an enjoyment to think of mine, whether it's Networks specific around TA, whether it's just general recruiting, whether it's connecting with whatever. Utkarsh Narang (22:01.976) Mmm. Utkarsh Narang (22:08.481) Mm-hmm. Dan Nuroo (22:29.794) but always building off the, just don't be an a**hole. Be nice to people, treat them how you want to be treated and be respectful and see, that'll take you places. In this role, I've always told my teams, it's all about the conversation. So you reach out to me, we started talking about this, we'll have a conversation, we'll see where it leads. It's all about the conversation. And a lot of my things have started from there. Utkarsh Narang (22:36.461) Thanks Utkarsh Narang (22:58.52) Hmm. Dan Nuroo (23:00.323) And you know, I was I've been lucky enough in the last couple of months to have that reinforced with a couple of things I I reached out to someone who I hadn't spoken to for years and I forgot how we first connected but I knew her and she was in a Worrying position. So I thought well, why not? I'll reach out and see what happens. What's the worst that can happen? Yeah, she tells me nah, don't know if he can't use you bugger off Okay, what's the worst gonna happen? Her response blew my mind This is someone I'd first had dealings with pre Y2K. So not yesterday, a while ago. I was working in a company and we became the master vendor for a whole bunch of recruitment companies into a bigger client. This lady was one of the suppliers to that master vendor so we dealt with each other a fair bit but she worked for another recruitment agency. Her own, actually her own business. and I was juggling all the kind of stuff there. She told me this story, I didn't remember, knew it from those days, I didn't understand. But she told me when we actually spoke recently that I'd helped her out. She went through an issue with her grandfather passing back in Greece and she had to go off and take off to get there for that. and she had a couple of candidates in play. And she goes, you told me just to go and not worry about it and you'll deal with everything. And you did and I made those placements and all that kind of stuff happened, I'll never forget it. And I'm going, I forgot now. But nothing big on that, that was just being a person to someone, right? Yeah, and that kind of thing's happened a couple of times in the last six months. So it's been brave enough to ask. Utkarsh Narang (24:46.904) Hmm. Dan Nuroo (24:57.666) the network if you need help, if you need things. Because being a human being people, you never know how you influence people. You never know who sees what or whatever happens. So those things are... They make you feel good about yourself, but they also reinforce some of the things I've told people over the years and it's like, it doesn't make sense, it's true. So it's good when those kind of reinforcements happen. Utkarsh Narang (25:23.544) 100 % no, being brave enough to ask, I think that's such a powerful lesson. And we do that not very often because I think I've been in places also where I could have just reached out to someone and said, so and so, can you support me with this? And then you would not because part of you is like looking at the super human intensity that you have. I think that's one challenge that I've seen and we need to move away from that. And then just being kind to each other. It does not take much and... And you know, I often feel like people, get those cold emails in my inbox and cold messages in LinkedIn. If they're of value to me, I say yes or no, and then close that conversation right there and then the other thing that I really feel is a very simple shift, Dan, but people don't do it enough is to just show up on time. And I've seen that so many times. I was at a podcast recording yesterday morning at 7 a.m. Melbourne time. And so that person is in the U.S. I show up to the call five minutes into it. and they're not there. And I feel like, how can you forget it? You've accepted the invite, I've accepted the invite and unless something massive is happening, I'll understand. But if you don't even respond to the email, then yeah, just breaks that trust 100%. Yeah. absolutely. Absolutely. Dan Nuroo (26:34.754) Yes, doing as you say is pretty important or apologizing if you don't. Right? Stuff happens, you forget things, that all happens, but not just ghost people. People say recruiters do it all the time. Not a thing that should happen. I had a tutor at one stage and he wasn't. I go through maths, year 11, year 12, and this guy said something to him that I thought was really powerful, where my son was... Utkarsh Narang (26:49.804) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hmm. Dan Nuroo (27:04.352) worried about nervous didn't want to be embarrassed about asking for help at the class right or going up asking teachers felt dumb can't do that this guy said something on the lines of has anyone ever asked you for help yeah well yeah and how did you feel when you're able to help them and they got what they needed and that you got a buzz didn't you and he's like yeah so why don't you want other people to feel that buzz because of you let them feel the enjoyment of being able to help someone Having that in the head when I go through the stages and I have to do some business development, is something I forgot that I probably have to do in my own business, that was fairly powerful for me at the time. Utkarsh Narang (27:49.0) It's such a powerful story. I'm going to put that in my back pocket and use it often. Thank you for that Dan. As we speak about talent and you've worked nationally and with other organizations internationally as well, what do you see is the big difference? And this is something that I'm grappling with personally, so it's a very personal question. What do you think is the difference between how Australia as a land operates versus maybe other parts where you've worked with in terms of how they see... the human resource, the talent, whatever word we want to use. Dan Nuroo (28:23.49) Dan Nuroo (28:28.652) I was gonna say different but the same. How is that for an absolutely non-committal answer? Anything you read, anything you see will talk about how important talent is to an organisation's success. Everyone talks about that. It must be true because everyone says it. But then the reality is on how you treat your people from there. A lot of people, but this will happen, it's just company-based, it's leadership-based. I don't think it's a... Utkarsh Narang (28:48.216) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (28:55.544) Mm-hmm. Dan Nuroo (29:00.05) national thing, I don't think it's a cultural thing, I think it's just a people thing. That some people will see their employees as... Utkarsh Narang (29:03.66) Mmm. Dan Nuroo (29:10.572) resources, not as people. And they're there to do that. You know, some places will not think twice about having to put a red pen through a few names because we've got to make X amount of redundancies because we've got to make this level to make sure our executives get their bonuses and blah, blah, Others I've seen really pour over the numbers and pour over the individual people as to how and why it should or shouldn't happen. Utkarsh Narang (29:11.245) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (29:35.649) Hmm. Dan Nuroo (29:41.459) So I think it's more organisational than this country is better than this country or that country to work for. Personally, I'm not a big fan of over generalisations. Even when I'm talking to people about people say talent is better in here or here or here, it's rubbish. Or this generation is better than that generation or this generation, that's crap as well. Utkarsh Narang (29:46.904) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (29:57.132) Mm-hmm. Utkarsh Narang (30:04.76) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (30:09.191) Hmm. Dan Nuroo (30:10.675) People are people and everyone of them is different, everyone's got different drivers. Find it, how we manage it is up to the organisation and its style and how it takes a talent, says, how takes a Utkarsh Narang (30:21.628) No, absolutely 100 % makes sense because it's who you are at the core and then who you become as a leader is what's going to kind of decide the culture of the organization. And so to say that anyone in a different country is smarter than anyone in different country, which there's a lot of research on as well as I'm thinking through this now and I think it makes complete sense. And it's all about that human experience, that ability to understand people for who they are, respect them and what you and I have been speaking about. be kind, create that network, not with like some unbelievable level of intention, but just keep doing the good things and that network will get built over time. As we now come towards wrapping this up, Dan, we started with that eight year old Dan. Now, if you were to look at 30 years from now, 40 years from now, what would that 85 year old Dan be looking at you and advising you to do now so that in the next three or four decades, you find joy in that 85 year old is proud of who you became. Dan Nuroo (31:25.71) Yeah, I saw that question. It really piqued my interest. I thought that was just a beautiful thing to ponder. Again, if I'm talking to myself now, and I say this to people, consistently I have to live with myself to be kind to yourself. lot of people struggling with finding a job and things like that at the moment. And it's tough market there. So be kind to yourself as far as how you view yourself amongst others. Easier said than done, right? And it's easier to say to someone else and live it yourself. I get that. I think taking the time to enjoy the various stages of life. Enjoying where I am now with the kids finishing school and finding their independence and stuff like that. That's fun to watch. It's fun to mentally relive it from when I was a kid and getting my own independence and stuff like that. think back now, how did my parents put up with it? I must have been really tough on them. I was the youngest of five, so when I left, it was like empty nesting for them. I didn't think of it at all. It was not something that even entered my consciousness. So to do that, to enjoy where I am now, to trust in people around me, to ask questions, to go with that, and share problems and stuff as well. That's never been great for me. It's something I've learned over the last five years that I probably need to do more of. Dan Nuroo (32:57.038) and just believing that what I do isn't rocket surgery, right? Brain surgery, no one's gonna die because of what I do. But it will make a difference in people's lives. It makes a difference in mine. And it makes a difference in my family's and other people's families and stuff like that. So I'm humble and I enjoy the difference I can make in people's lives from what we do. Remembering that is pretty cool. And if I can sit back and enjoy it and actually understand what we're doing. what I'm doing now and the journey we're taking. Who knows where the next ones will live and hopefully live up to it. Utkarsh Narang (33:35.928) Powerful, powerful. I love this quote that I've heard often and quoted also. Mahatma Gandhi used to say that, when I sleep at night, I die and then I wake up tomorrow and I'm born again. And I think just finding that joy in life, I think that's something that we all miss out on. I think it's important for us to refocus and see where instead of the FOMO, the fear of missing out, where the joy of missing out also lies. Sometimes it's okay to not look at other people's Instagrams. Some days it's okay to not compare yourself and not want the corner office and just do things for the joy of it. Be kind, be respectful as Dan you've shared. Before we let you go, Dan, if there were three pieces of advice that you could share with your three children who are, if I remember the ages correctly, 20, 17 and 14, what would those three... Dan Nuroo (34:28.632) That's it. Utkarsh Narang (34:30.932) Advice is B to each one of them. One to each. Dan Nuroo (34:34.508) Yeah, well I did speak to them the other day after I had this conversation with those guys of just remember how you make people feel. You you choose how you react to people, you choose how you do things. So remember that, remember they're just people you're dealing with, even if they're upset or whatever, they're just people. So remembering that is a big one. Dan Nuroo (34:59.854) One of my, the one that's just finishing year 12, I had to write a letter to their parents about their journey through school. And whilst begging me for my love of music, or my choices of music, my middle child wrote, one of the things she values is the fact that I can see the lighter side of things. you know, it doesn't have to be so serious all the time. You're here for a... you might as enjoy yourself while you're doing it. Find your way to enjoy what you do. You're not always gonna, you know, you're gonna be in a job that sucks at times. Every job has some time that's ordinary. Whether you're just starting a career in the middle or at the end, there's always gonna be some crappy stuff within it. But life's more than that. You can enjoy other things within it and you can always find some light in the dark moments as well. So I'm all about that. I've got in trouble before for being. Probably not stressed enough at times. Not visibly stressed enough at times. Not visibly stressed enough at times. Always go for your sweat. Correct. Don't let the buzzer see your sweat, right? He's always like, what you got with that? And the third one. Utkarsh Narang (36:01.048) Visibly stressed. I like that word. Visibly stressed. Ha ha! Dan Nuroo (36:19.704) purely selfishly, be really nice to your parents. because A, that'll get me looked after and B, that is also a period of time that disappears pretty quickly on you. Utkarsh Narang (36:35.672) Beautiful. Love that. Love that. Thank you Dan for being here for this conversation. I don't think a conversation with someone who's been in the talent HR space could have been this human. It just baffles my mind as to how human we all are. And sometimes we just let go of that. Thank you for reminding us that it's good. It's okay. It's perfect to be the humans that we are and just find that joy in the moment. look forward to how our paths intersect and I'm sure that that listeners would have a great time as well. Dan Nuroo (37:09.571) I appreciate your time and I've really enjoyed the conversation. Thanks so much for having me. Utkarsh Narang (37:13.227) Absolutely. Take care. Dan Nuroo (37:15.854) Cheers, man.