Utkarsh Narang (00:01.326) When a previous guest introduces me and connects me to someone else, and they say that that will be an intriguing conversation, then I don't leave that opportunity. Welcome to another episode of the IgnitedNeurons podcast. Today I have with me Christina, who was introduced to me by Cara who was on the episode, and we'll find the link for you on left or right of the screen so that you can go and listen to that conversation also. But the conversation today with Christina is going to be unexpected. It's going to be about productivity, maybe, about... small businesses and how to scale them up and it could be about anything under the sun. Hi, Christina, how are you? Christina Salerno (00:35.892) Hello, I'm really excited to be here. Utkarsh Narang (00:38.698) I'm looking forward to the conversation. How's your week been so far? Christina Salerno (00:44.286) It's been very up and down. been dealing with a dog that has, I do dog sitting for fun on the side and she's made it to my know list. She was a troublemaker throughout the night. So I'm excited for a full night of sleep. Utkarsh Narang (00:59.498) Amazing. That's good thing to be excited about. Sleep is such a luxury. Christina Salerno (01:04.899) Yes, when you don't have it, it is. Utkarsh Narang (01:06.958) When you don't have it. Absolutely. Love that. We dive straight into the deep end of the pool when we start the podcast. And the first question that we ask our guests is that if that eight year old little girl, the eight year old Christina, wherever you were growing up, if that little girl were to come and meet you right now, what kind of a conversation would emerge between the two of you? Christina Salerno (01:31.316) I just want to check, is it 8 or 80? Okay, okay. I planned for 80. Utkarsh Narang (01:33.93) eight right now. Let's start with eight. Utkarsh Narang (01:40.104) We will get to the 80 because the 80 one is in the future and we don't know if we'll make it to 80 but we will seek about that too. But right now what we are seeking is if that little girl with dreams of her own, if she were to come, what would happen? Christina Salerno (01:41.876) Okay. Okay, okay, okay. Yes. Okay. So... I would definitely provide a lot of reassurance to her. And I think, you know, especially around that age, I was very lost and trying to figure out where I fit and belonged into the world. I was very clear early, early on that I was different and I didn't really have a lot of support to navigate that. in a way that helped me figure out, what do I do with that? I had like parents that really supported me being different and creative and, but I didn't feel like I was very equipped. So I feel like, you know, that eight year old, would, I would be very nurturing, gentle, reassuring. And I would try to encourage her that the path is going to be Christina Salerno (02:52.561) unexpected and winding and it's okay to not know, you know, where you're headed because you're always going to take the harder path than life. But, you know, you are resilient and you're going to be very creative and you're going to figure it out. Utkarsh Narang (03:16.536) With everything that you said, could like pick up and we could go each one of these 10, 10, right? Because you spoke about reassuring her, you spoke about fitting and belonging in the world, which I think still is a challenge. I turned 40 this year, I still feel like, do I really belong here? And we're all so uniquely different. So just this idea of being different. Well, let's start like at eight year old feeling lost. did how did that feel like? Christina Salerno (03:50.911) I mean, when I was eight, I was being bullied. So it was, you know, really... Christina Salerno (04:01.977) mad and angry and hurt and unsure of how to interact with others. I had to get really good at figuring out what would get a positive or a negative reaction with other people. Fortunately, I have a lot of skillfulness in my mind and so that's kind what I... relied on was figuring out, okay, here's the situation. And I would often like repeat scenarios either before or after or both and just be like, okay, so this happens and I could do this. And I would play it on my head and be like, well, if this happens and I could do this. then like afterwards I would do a retrospective of, okay, well, they said this and then this happened. But if I had done this or said this, maybe this could have happened instead. And so was like, I was that aware. when I was eight of just how. complex and nuanced I was trying to understand. was literally interested in psychology and like humans and how do they work and how do I work and that's just been like a through line for my life of trying to understand people. Utkarsh Narang (05:19.992) Hmm. Part of me felt really overwhelmed as you were thinking about all of that. Part of me was also thinking, Christina, for an, for an eight year old, that's a lot to be aware of. That's a lot to be thinking about. And as you're saying about all of this, I'm a parent. So I'm also always comparing anyone who has kids, right? That maybe a, maybe they have an eight year old or a 10 year old. How do you feel about this awareness even as, as an eight year old? Christina Salerno (05:51.679) How do I feel? Utkarsh Narang (05:54.422) about this awareness that you were calculating. Christina Salerno (05:58.613) I mean, I don't know how to feel. I mean, it was like, that was my world. I mean, I can remember even earlier doing all that. Five, four even. And I know memories are not reliable, but that's just like, I think how my brain works. I have experiential kinesthetic memory of that being like, didn't, whatever I was expecting to happen, that was not ever what happened. And I had to. Utkarsh Narang (06:11.33) Mm. Christina Salerno (06:28.606) quickly figure out, okay, well if I, and then we can go down the route of like the trauma side of that. And all that I've done to unpack the trauma side of being in a world that's very unpredictable and unsafe and growing up in that type of feeling in my body and how much I've had to do from so much personal work just to make sure that I can unwind and untangle a lot of that trauma and that patterning of, okay, well, I don't have to work so hard. It's okay if something doesn't go as planned and I can kind of navigate that and I have a lot more skillfulness around that now. But you know, when I was young, I didn't and that's what I mean. Like I wasn't equipped to handle life. Utkarsh Narang (07:14.446) you Utkarsh Narang (07:21.166) How did that skill start to develop? The skill of handling life and people around you? Christina Salerno (07:31.124) survival. Just having to figure out how to not get hurt and not to experience pain. It was just a pure survival, like how can I navigate this world that hurts? Utkarsh Narang (07:46.958) And as you look at that journey in retrospect, what worked worked really well to help you survive? because why I'm asking this question is because there are many people who listen to this podcast who are in their thirties and I was reflecting upon it seems like thirties are the most difficult decade to me, but it could be the twenties or it could be the tens or it could be the forties. yeah, so, For someone who's navigating wherever they are right now, what did Christina do that they can learn from to navigate their sense of being lost? Christina Salerno (08:28.678) Yes, so. Christina Salerno (08:34.708) I think you have to let go of a lot of the cultural understanding that you've developed about what you should or should not do and begin to get really honest with, how do you work? How does your brain work? How does your body work? are you, there's so many differences between each person. And we generalize that. in almost all personal development and self-help. think sometimes when you are neurodivergent or different and even trauma, lot of personal development isn't trauma-informed. Sometimes if you're like, okay, well, I just need to have a positive manifestation mindset. If you have a lot of trauma, like that's not actually gonna work. You have to deal with your trauma. Like you're just gonna keep fighting that feeling. It's like no mindset reframes are gonna help. So I think you have to get really honest with where are you at? What do you need? And that's going to change. The more that you get honest, the more it will change. And over time, you're going to feel less lost because you're more honest in about where you actually are. Utkarsh Narang (09:59.345) I love that. love that because what you're saying is that, and I 100 % agree, we are so different. And yes, you spoke about being neurodivergent or different in things that sometimes show up or sometimes don't. But even beyond that, each one of us carries our own scars and traumas and micro traumas and macro traumas. And some, some we are not even aware of is sometimes I feel Christina that like, do we really know the trauma that we had was like a trauma? And so self-help or everything else starts to say that, do this, think positively, think this and write your affirmations and life's gonna change but it's not that easy. And so what you're saying is to be honest with yourself. What are some practices that work? Christina Salerno (10:48.323) So I'm going to keep repeating this. Every person is different. You're going to have to figure out what works for you. So for example, I am a mixture of I need to... get my words in a jumbled fashion somewhere safe so that I can really feel my kinesthetic body. So if I could communicate non-verbally or in gibberish, that would be my happiest mode. I had to get really comfortable with articulating words and trying to express myself. and that was a skill that I had to really, really work to develop. And so if I'm trying to get honest with myself, I have to get into my more natural, unmasked, uncompensated state, which is going to come out messy, gibberish. And so I have to have a person or my journal or I love music for that reason. It's actually... Why I think I'm so drawn to it is it's a nonverbal kinesthetic expression that I can use to process and move things in my body. I used to be a professional singer, I was in a rock band, so it has a really important history for me. But now I'm very passionate about partner dance and that feels like a nonverbal communication that I get to have between two people. finding their space, my space, the music, kind of connecting in that moment. And so for me, those are ways that I can get to my more honest. Christina Salerno (12:41.459) place without having judgment because you know inside of a dance, partner dance, there is a lot of structure that I don't have to create. If I have a relationship that I have kind of worked really hard to create safety and structure and understanding, shared understanding, then I don't have to in that moment when I need to feel held and I need to feel messy. and be in more of my natural state. Like that is already prepared for me. Other people, they are verbal processors. They need to talk. Somebody on our team, like she literally has to go out and touch trees and touch plants. Like I was just driving earlier today and there was a big rainbow and I was like, I'm gonna capture it for her. I think she'll love that. It's like other people, what they need and what will help them feel the most. connected, most honest, most embodied will be different. You just kind of have to explore and experiment and try things out and figure out what works for you. Utkarsh Narang (13:54.102) I'm trying to internalize everything that you're saying because it's very deep. A, I think it's a caveat that like we'll mark an asterisk on the thumbnail to this episode and we let people know that everything that you're now talking about is applicable to our experiences or of what we have observed of the world around us. And whoever is listening, they need to find their own truth because we cannot say that truth for them. But what we're going to try today is where I'm wanting to take us to Christina is to A, understand how do humans work through this conversation. And so as you're talking about these nonverbal cues, how you relate to music, how you relate to your honesty. If someone's experimenting with a few different things and they don't know what would it feel like when they've found their sweet spot, found their truth or whatever word you want to use that. What did you observe in the early days where you found like, this is my calling or this is making me feel who I truly am or who I truly want to be? Christina Salerno (15:01.331) Yeah, so think oftentimes we're looking for the big aha or that big feeling and I think you actually have to just take it a little bit more lightly, almost like a kid and like you're just playing, you're trying things out, you're iterating, you know, okay, let me try this. How does that feel? Okay, I noticed that this is a feeling in my body. I think also sometimes early in the process, it can get muddled what the actual kinesthetic feelings mean. And sometimes people... either take them to mean incorrect things. For example, if you start to feel a tension in your body, like you feel tense and your shoulders raise, you might be like, well, I don't like that. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe that means that you have some things that you need to work through to get to a more honest place of what does your body actually feel when it's more regulated and you're less activated. So it always, every time that your body is having a sensation, it is teaching you something, but it may not be the big aha of like, well, this is for me. It may be actually, if you're feeling excitement, it might be just the next step on your path, or it might be that it's a pattern of things that you get excited about because you were taught that that is what you should be doing. So you get excited about the idea, but then it doesn't stick long-term. So this is where you have to take it in a more bite size moment by moment. Let me try this thing. also, I love experiments and iterative experiments and thinking almost a bit scientific about it. Okay, here's my hypothesis. Let me go out and try this and let me test this and these parameters. Let me then retrospect on how that's gonna go. But that very iterative. Other people, they're gonna try. other approaches, but I would say ultimately what you want to make sure you're doing is just you're enjoying the process instead of trying to get really stuck on a destination. Utkarsh Narang (17:09.637) I like that thought that it does not have to be like a big bang that you'll sense when you're doing something or experiencing something. It could be really small micro moments and you need to be aware to be able to recognize the micro moments and they'll come to you at the right time. Love the idea of exploring and experimenting because I mean, that's what life is all about, right? Somewhere as children, we're very comfortable in that exploration. And then as we grow up, too many of us. and in different intensities, there comes a stage when we stop the experiment, when we become so... for the right reasons, so rigid in our own beings that we become human doings and not human beings. It's a fascinating difference between the two terms, right? And I think what you're saying is that find that natural state, enjoy the process moment by moment. And I love all of that. And as you're speaking, I'm also thinking like, if music is that for Christina, what is it for me? Because... Christina Salerno (18:14.352) Mm-hmm. Utkarsh Narang (18:15.136) No one's never challenged me that can I find that space? So as I'm thinking, it's, It seems running is one of those things that gives me that, joy. And what I'm able to relate to that Christina and hopefully that will resonate with the listeners as well as that. So one of my values that I operate with is freedom. And it seems that when I go for a run or go for a longer bike ride, it makes me feel free. And that freedom, when I experience it, the heart pounding, the music or not music, it's just like. my whole body is like fully activated and that seems to me like that's my moment it seems. Yeah, it's very fascinating. It's very fascinating how humans work. You spoke somewhere about being a vocalist and a singer in a rock band. Can we today on the podcast ask you to sing a song? Would that be something that you'll give us a joy of? Christina Salerno (19:18.194) Gosh, I don't even know what I would sing but I know what I could do. So I can kind of give you a glimpse into like more of the nonverbal music side. So what I'm going to do is completely improv, completely coming from kinesthetic. So it'll just be kind of like a glimpse into that state that I'm kind of sharing or trying to talk about. Sound good? Utkarsh Narang (19:47.502) Yeah, absolutely. Whenever you feel ready or yeah. Christina Salerno (19:56.819) I Utkarsh Narang (20:34.806) Wow, for someone whose brain does not function in music and does not function really well, how does that come through? Like what were you internally going through that gets expressed, mesmerized? Christina Salerno (20:51.494) just letting it. It was like feelings and like thoughts that weren't really thoughts. It was just letting my expression out and because I'm staying as soon as I could talk and dance as soon as I could walk like it just comes from me. I don't like I can put it into formats and I could you know I did songwriting and I can do the specific type. types of dance and whatnot, but like for me it's it's so just easy once I kind of feel into my body and feel into it. It's like, okay, well if I wanted to say something, what would I say? Here it is. Utkarsh Narang (21:37.454) Wow, that's this idea of just letting it be, just letting it emerge, just letting go. think it's cliche, right? Everyone talks about these things, but it is so hard to do. Christina Salerno (21:52.497) Yep. Utkarsh Narang (21:55.554) That was beautiful. That was beautiful. was mesmerized in... We've done 33, 35 episodes. I've never had anyone come and sing something on the show. that was special. And it will be etched in my memory and the memory of this podcast history. What was the experience of being part of a rock band? Because that also... And I have a son who's a drummer. And so he's 14 and still not part of a rock band and still not doing things that... I will be worried about, but that's the conversation of the day. But what was it like to be part of a rock band and being the vocalist? And just give me like that view of your world during those times. Christina Salerno (22:36.465) I was the least rockstar ever. I didn't drink, I didn't do drugs. was like so organized, like Type A about the whole thing. It was just really a vehicle to bring that expression into some somewhere. And I think, you know, we hear a lot of the kind of standard corporate stories of you go into corporate, you kind of go down your your expected path and then you have some sort of existential moment where you're like, wait, what am I doing with my life? And then you go off and you try to do something that you actually care about. And that story actually played out in the creative world and with a rock band because I thought that I wanted all these things and I thought that I wanted to be on tour. And I was doing 200 shows over the cross of like the United States that I had booked and promoted. that's where the operations side of me comes from. and I was so broken at the end of that on every single level, physical, mental, emotional, existential, spiritual, all the levels was just so broken because that was not at all the environment and the way of being in the world that would help me to thrive. So it's this really bittersweet thing where I'm had all these really interesting stories and moments of playing in front of hundreds of people and you you know, you can still find me on YouTube. know, and I have albums and stuff out there but I, it's, it's such, it's so long ago now as well. 15 plus years. Yeah, so it was a while ago, but it was a good experience. And It took a lot for me to survive going through that. I never thought I wanted to be anything other than a singer because music was so important to me. But the way that I approached it was so... Christina Salerno (24:51.245) I pressure that I pushed myself and I pushed my limits and I'm just not a type of environment that I thrive in. Utkarsh Narang (25:06.081) Wow. Quite fascinating, right? How people in the corporate world go through this journey and then they wake up and they want to do something else with their life. And then you're at a different end of the spectrum where I'll speak for myself, where someone like me would imagine like being on stage, doing those 200 shows would be like the dream, right? And, and that also tells me that whoever is achieving whatever dream they're achieving, there's a lot happening at the background in the in the back end of the system, which we don't see. And maybe the highlight reel on Instagram shows that this person is doing so much and they're successful in every outer term of the way and everything's perfect. But inside you spoke about physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, and you said you were broken. That's fascinating. Christina Salerno (25:57.53) We have this, it's like a clip of our drummer actually liked to take videos and such and he'd made this montage for like three, four minutes and I watched that and I'm like, that looks fun. And then I'm like, but that's just like the best moments of the whole year. There's so much more that happens. You know, waking up in a van where the snow had frozen the ceiling. and was dripping on your face and you're with three other smelly, stinky boys. Like, that's not the dream. Utkarsh Narang (26:34.177) That's not the dream. That's not the dream. Whoever is listening in whatever world you are in right now, and maybe there's a part of you that's craving that, oh, that person, that highlight reel, that Instagram profile, I wish my life could be like that. The story could be very different because there's always more than what meets the eye. Christina Salerno (26:56.753) I mean, that goes back to why I'm such a big believer iterative experiment is you don't know until you start to experience it. And if I had been taking more of that approach, I would have really quickly realized I didn't actually even really like this before I did a whole tour. And so if you can take it in more bite-sized chunks and ease into things and be like, wait, really do I really like this? What do I really think? Utkarsh Narang (27:11.15) you Christina Salerno (27:21.285) Or maybe I like this aspect, but could I change this aspect? Like it doesn't have to look, you get to make it all up. You get to figure out what it should look like for you, not what it should look like in other people's terms. And that to me is what's so important about the way that I approach business and teams nowadays. It's like that I'm taking those learnings and trying to apply it to how we work and how we operate. together in the workplace as well. Utkarsh Narang (27:53.006) And to the listeners, did not speak about this, but Christina is the CEO of Magical Teams and does amazing work with small businesses and large. you spoke about time and again, you're speaking about experiments so easily because they naturally, I'm assuming they naturally, or you've trained yourself to have those experiments come to you very naturally. But there are so many others, Christina, who would be sitting and listening to this like. They can't take even the smallest step sometimes because there's fear in the way there's judgment in the way there is just this terror with uncertainty. It's just this like, the hell might happen if I take this step? How do you and I talk about something right now or take a direction which will help people feel less? I can take that experiment. I can take that next step. Christina Salerno (28:45.624) Yeah, so I actually used to teach a whole like course and workshop on fear because I think fear is like such a cool topic. So I recommend that you make fear your best friend. You it's so counter but the thing that I love to do I was a a coach for a while. So one of the things I love to do with my clients. So if you put your hands like this, palms to palm, now with your right hand, push into the other one. What does the other hand want to do? Yes. So now relax your right hand and kind of like wiggle it around. What does the other hand want to do? Yes. So that is any emotion, any feeling in your body. Utkarsh Narang (29:25.196) back. Utkarsh Narang (29:33.346) relax and wiggle around. Christina Salerno (29:41.017) it's going to have the same exact counter response to how you treat it. So if you treat your feelings, your emotions, your physical experiences with love, with tenderness, with nurturing them and feeling like, I hear that you're so afraid. I love you and I really appreciate what you're trying to do is you're trying to protect me. It's going to get quieter. the more you fight it, the louder it's gonna get. So that's why I say like, you have to become friends with your fear, with your emotions, with your physical feelings. The more that you can allow them to be on your side and be on the same side, then you're gonna be able to work together more creatively. more gently. You're going to have more breathing space instead of trying to force them into anything. which is only going to make it so it's a wall, so like feel like a wall. That's why you feel like you can't move. Utkarsh Narang (30:51.714) Yeah, that's such a good experiment. And I love how naturally when you put two hands together and you're trying to push, the other hand wants to push. It does not even think for one second that let me just succumb to the pressure of the right hand. Not at all. Christina Salerno (31:01.23) Yeah. Christina Salerno (31:06.934) I have had one person out of all the hundreds that I've ever done that had a different reaction. was like, well, you've broken my thing. Utkarsh Narang (31:13.806) That's so interesting. That's so interesting. And you know, as you're speaking with that, so I love fear, by the way. I think fear is is just abused, misused, but it is not used in the right way, because I think it is not necessary that fear should paralyze you. It can motivate you as well, and it can help you take action as well. It's how the relationship that you you develop with the emotion. And I think with what you're saying to make friends of any emotion that you have or the feelings that you have or the physical sensations that you have that needs a lot of inner work. Christina Salerno (31:57.989) Mm-hmm. Utkarsh Narang (32:01.294) How do we go on that journey? And I'm asking you these questions because as a coach, I understand the concept, but I don't, I don't want to, I want to play the devil's advocate here all the time. Right. So I love where you're taking us. I love, I'm walking with you and I'm enjoying this conversation and the time that we're spending. yeah, what's Christina's thought process on how to start to do this inner work or what could that inner work look like? Christina Salerno (32:03.459) Okay. Christina Salerno (32:11.062) Yes, yes, yes, of course. Christina Salerno (32:28.676) You know, I think there's a lot of terrible coaches out there, but there's also a couple good ones that you can find. that to me, like some of the coaches or therapists or people that I've had to guide me through some of that has been invaluable. And I could not have done it because I didn't know how to even talk to myself like that. I was constantly like this. I literally got an autoimmune condition because I was battling myself to such a degree that I got a lifetime condition. So I know what it's like to battle yourself. I think for the longest time I was trying so hard to figure out myself and I got like really a lot of skills and I a lot of coping strategies. But ultimately I wasn't equipped, wasn't taught early enough to know how to actually, you know, be nurturing with myself, how to actually care for myself. And I had to learn that by having other people model it and guide me through it. So I am a big huge fan of therapy and coaching. And I think that it's, it's a necessity. And it's just, you you've got to be cautious about, you know, who you work with because you're, there's a lot of people out there that aren't the most skillful in those kind of very vulnerable places. Utkarsh Narang (34:13.774) Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a tough world out there because, yeah, because, and for their own reasons again, who are you and I to, or who am I to judge anyone? I'll speak for myself, but yeah, they put the word coach very easily, but it takes a lot of inner work to be in any position to be supporting anyone through any journey. I've used too many ennies in one sentence, but I think the sentence deserved it. Christina Salerno (34:48.463) And even more than just like, you know, the inner work, there's a lot of skillfulness that you need to, in order to become understanding and informed on trauma, on neurodiversity, on race, on all these things that, you know, oftentimes I think people who become coaches are like, oh my gosh, I had such a transformation and now I want to help others. But there's such a skill and unfortunately most coaching programs don't actually even teach that side of it. Utkarsh Narang (35:16.6) Yeah, yeah. And I think what you spoke about There's this saying that I often use, like, there's always a war within us that's going on. And what you were saying, I think you used the word that we are battling ourselves in so many ways. And how do you talk to yourself? That's also a skill. And that also takes time to develop because you need to be kinder and more compassionate and more empathetic to yourself as well, which is such a hard skill again. which is such a hard skill. Christina Salerno (35:53.581) Such a hard seal, yeah. Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (35:57.434) Time and again, we go back to Utkarsh You could have done like five more podcasts this week. What were you doing? What are you doing resting? Why did you need the sleep? Why did you... But we, we, yeah, forget that let's be kinder to ourselves. And maybe that's then the first step for whoever is listening, whoever is feeling that there is this battle within which they're unable to fully understand. Yes, you can get a coach and therapist. That's the most important and you should absolutely find the right person. But if you can start to just be a little bit more kinder to yourself, think that's an initiation into the journey. Christina Salerno (36:30.191) Another like very quick thing actually if you start to read parenting books that will teach you how to better parent yourself. Utkarsh Narang (36:43.47) Mmm. Utkarsh Narang (36:47.394) Yeah. Do you do? I never checked. Are you mad? Do you have kids, Christina? Christina Salerno (36:55.183) I have a dog child. I have a partner and he has a 13 year old. I have no interest in kids. But it's been so much part of my journey to figure out how to parent myself. Utkarsh Narang (36:59.349) also. Christina Salerno (37:17.421) There's actually one of my, someone that I, that I learned a lot from said something that has really stuck with me, which is that as a parent, if you are doing anything other than being 100 % loving and nurturing, you are abusing the child. And that word is very, you know, loaded, but I think actually to really, when you're starting to do this deep inner work, it's actually really healing to be honest about actually, you know what, I was abused. Not to blame your parents, not to say, most parents are just doing the best they can. But that's why you might experience certain things in your body that are activated, they're tense, right? because there was something that wasn't 100 % loving and nurturing that you're still undoing even now. And that's why you have to reparent yourself so that part of you can grow up. and go through the proper development. You have to really treat those parts of yourself, those feelings, those emotions as a little baby and be very kind and loving and nurturing so that it can then start to become a teenager and be a little awkward and like, okay, let me try this out and how's this feel? Okay, they're gonna push back and they're gonna be a little bit, you know, troublesome. Okay, I'm still gonna love you, I'm gonna still nurture you. so it can become an adult. Most of the time adults aren't actually fully adults. Utkarsh Narang (39:18.028) least three times during what you just said I just sensed a strong sensation go from the top of my head to the to my feet and to into the ground because that's so so powerful. A just this idea of parenting yourself we'll get more into that because I've never heard about that so that's absolutely necessary and then this idea that if you're not 100 % and 100 % of the time loving and nurturing to your children, you're abusing them. Wow, that hit like a train, free train running right over me. And so many times I... Let myself get distracted. Let myself not work on the work that I feel is so important. Not do a certain thing because I want to put my attention to my children and some days it's hard because some days it feels like can you just not stop? Can I not just focus on one email for five minutes without you interjecting and asking me about either your friend or your play date on the weekend or something like that? And then I correct myself Utkarsh this email, if you don't send it right now and send it in an hour, in 45 minutes, no one's going to die. But their thought, once you shhh them off right now, will not come back. And it is such a battle because the world has told me, oh, this feels like therapy, Christina, thank you. The world has told me, the world has told me that Utkarsh, work is the most important thing you do, but it's not. Christina Salerno (40:56.206) you Utkarsh Narang (41:03.374) It's not. And so you spoke about that nurturing and loving and then taking care of yourself. Like, like double click on this, like dissect it, expand it. What does it mean to parent yourself? That's such a new concept for me. Christina Salerno (41:19.854) So it comes from internal family systems, which is a therapy model. There's a lot of other therapy practices that, you know, parts work, you know, like I could rattle off so many things where it's like, Whenever that moment of anything less than nurturing happens, there's a thing that happens in the child where their development gets halted and they start to create a wounding. And if the parent doesn't help them process that, it develops into a scar and then it's there, it's just there. And so One of the actual really profound things that I did is that there was a motherhood clarity journey that I did for four months. And it was this book that was a small group of six to eight people, and it was led by one of the co-authors. And it was basically going through this journey of figuring out, I want to be a mother? the whole... I think 50 to 60 percent of that was actually looking at what was your actual experience of being a child and what was your parents like and what was your mother because there's so many beliefs and like, well, that's your model. That's what you're thinking about. Well, if I want to be a parent, what does that actually mean? I only know what my parents were like, really. I mean, I can kind of see other parents, but you know what my body, my really young parts. my wounds, my traumas, all of that knows is what I experienced as a kid. And so the idea is that you are trying to work through these different parts of yourself. You're trying to talk to them through, you know, I've done hypnosis, I've done something called brain spotting, I've done, you know, visualizations, like all sorts of different things that you can use as tools to Christina Salerno (43:34.574) Try to get in touch with those parts and you can actually talk to them verbally, out loud. You can actually visualize them and see that representation and if it could say something, what would that be? And if you could have a conversation, if you could help heal it, you can actually do that work now. You don't have to stay in all of those things. can, know, repair it yourself. and grow up around some of these things. Like who I was 15 years ago after all that band stuff, there was still so many parts of myself that were very, very wounded from my childhood. And I had to, over the last, you know, many, many, years, I had to go through the process of figuring out what did that part not get that I have to now give it. and how can I talk to it, how can I treat it, how can I work with it so that it can grow up and it's not in the driver's seat. I can, as an adult, be the person making the decisions and navigating the world. Utkarsh Narang (44:54.518) I want our listeners to take this back by about seven, eight minutes and slowly listen to this one more time because... Yeah, it's so powerful to parent parts of you which would have not grown up, which are still wounded. The scars that were formed through any conversation, through any experience went deeper and deeper because there was no healing happening or healing that was happening was not sufficient enough to get you to where you want to be. Do you still practice some of this work, Christina? Like is there a daily or a weekly or a monthly or a quarterly practice that you have that you feel? keeps you keeps you growing. Christina Salerno (45:40.558) So it's funny that you said like most people struggle the most in their 30s. I feel like my 20s were that. Like I had to go deep into myself through all of that and then the 30s were, like I actually feel less trapped by myself now. I feel more free and I can kind of experiment now more freely. So I feel like I still have all of these tools and I kind of... hold them up, especially when you start to get into romantic relationships, all of this stuff gets really activated. Like you just start triggering each other and activating each other and you have to, you know, it's a lot, it's a lot. So that always is where things come up for me and realizing, okay, there's still something here that I need to work on so that I can better come to the relationship and not... come from a young part of me and function and behave from a young part of me, but also then be an adult about it and talk about this to my partner and be like, okay, so this part of me is really experiencing this. Can you help me by doing this or saying this? Right? So that's where I am still healing through the relationship, but I'm not putting the healing on my partner where I'm trying to be an adult in the process of that relationship. Utkarsh Narang (47:05.602) We could do a part two for this one because this is some deep shit we're getting into, So many core memories are popping up because I used to be someone who hated conflict. And so I would just avoid it because I was like, what's the point? You're going to shout. I'm going to shout. And my wife and I, we've been together now for, I need to answer that question correctly, 22 years. So it's been a very, very long, beautiful time. Christina Salerno (47:12.051) yes, yes. Utkarsh Narang (47:34.434) but we have grown tremendously through that experience because the person who we met in 2003 is definitely not the person we're living with now. And so I'm not the same person to myself, let alone to someone else. So. Utkarsh Narang (47:53.112) But we should bring this conversation to a close, which I really don't want to, but I want to get there. So you spoke about parenting yourself from the eight-year-old to the teenage to becoming an adult. Now, we go a few decades into the future, And the question is, if that 80-year-old, the eight-zero, beautiful wrinkles, beautiful white hair or whatever color hair you would have at that point were to come to you right now and give you a piece of advice. What would that Christina say? The 80 year old Christina. Christina Salerno (48:29.431) So thinking about this, my first thought was the whole world's gonna be dead. I'm gonna be dead. Nobody's gonna make it till I'm 80. Based on our trajectory here, we're not looking so good as the world. Utkarsh Narang (48:37.454) So bad, the 80 year old is not gonna come back. Christina Salerno (48:47.629) No, But I think, Christina Salerno (48:59.091) It would probably be something similar in the same sense of the eight to the, I'm almost 40 as well, know, reassurance, gentleness, like nurturing, you're going to be okay, I know it's going to be hard, you're always going to take the, you know, the unusual path and you're going to figure it out, like you always do. And I think, you know, as this specific cycle of my life, like I care more about finding ease and spaciousness and nothingness and so trying to fill it all the time with wins or progress or even growth, like that can be addicting too, like, I gotta keep growing, I gotta keep growing. It's like, okay, I think I can take a breather, you know? and I can dance more and I could snuggle my dog more and I can watch shows and this is fine if I love TV. So, you know, all those things I think it's just more ease around the things that I care about and doesn't have to look like anybody else and who knows how I'm gonna evolve. I know for sure that I keep changing and I will always keep changing. That's why I was always like... I'm never getting a tattoo because I know I'm going to change my mind. Utkarsh Narang (50:30.958) Good idea, good idea. That's so beautiful. The conversation between the eight and the eight-year-old is almost identical. And so that's so beautiful. To all those who are listening and still with us, 40, 52 minutes in, ask yourself, what is something that you're doing right now that is not allowing ease to come into your life? And what could you change about that? And I think it'd be a beautiful conversation to have over a Sunday morning cup of tea, coffee, chai, chai latte, turmeric latte, works for you, matcha. and enjoy. love this conversation, Christina, and I hope our listeners did too. To the podcast listeners, if you're listening on Spotify or Apple podcasts, share with someone who you think will resonate with what Christina and I spoke about. If you're on YouTube, appease to the algorithm gods because they're listening. So you got to comment, like, subscribe to the channel and do the whole thing. But Christina loved the conversation, part two will definitely happen and looking forward to more. Thank you. Christina Salerno (51:42.966) Thank you so much.