Utkarsh Narang (00:01.343) It is my absolute honor and pleasure to have for the first episode of Ignited Neurons podcast, none other than Alisa. And I was telling Alisa that I've been wanting to start this podcast for weeks, months and years, but the only two people in the world that I would want to start this with was one you Alisa, and then the other was Marshall Goldsmith. So welcome to this conversation. Looking forward to learning more through you. Alisa Cohn (00:24.553) That's so flattering and thank you so much for being so patient as we've rescheduled a few times, but I really appreciate the opportunity to kick off your podcast. So thank you, what an honor. Utkarsh Narang (00:34.401) Yeah, we're starting to put a dent in the universe as I hope to call this. But you know, as I've been a fan for years and I was going through this executive coach at multiple startups, Fortune 500, top startup coach for Thinkers 50, you're a sought after leadership speaker. But I just want to speak today and I love the book, by the way, need to mention this. If you've not read this listeners, then you've got to pick this up and read this. But who's Alisa? beyond these accolades and accomplishments is what I'd love for you to understand. Alisa Cohn (01:09.193) Well, I was born in a small town and my father would used to say that I wanted my, when I was four years old, I wanted my own apartment. So I think I was always kind of feisty, let's put it that way. And you know, I was, I've always been a seeker. And so I was always seeking in terms of my relationships, my self personal growth, you know, what I wanted to do for a living, all those kinds of things. So I think that that those kinds of things define me. Utkarsh Narang (01:18.891) Ugh. huh. huh. Utkarsh Narang (01:36.874) And you use this word seeker. How does that show up in your life right now, Alisa? Alisa Cohn (01:42.461) Well, becoming a coach was because I was a seeker. And so, you know, I was like looking around for the thing I really wanted to do that was going to be meaningful to me. I found, I met a coach and I found coaching and I was like, that's what I want to do. And I think that I'm always interested in, you know, pushing forward of like, what's my next area of creativity or where's the thing I'm working on more, or, you know, where do I go from here? So I would say that those are the kinds of things that define myself as a seeker. Utkarsh Narang (01:45.043) Mm -hmm. Utkarsh Narang (02:08.225) Beautiful. And you share about your father and how at four years old, you wanted your own apartment. And the whole concept of our podcast is that, you know, in Indian mythology, life is divided into these four phases. The first 25, where you're like a student wanting to learn more, gain more, then you get into some amount of household responsibilities, so to say. And then at 50, you get to a stage where you're starting to give away those kind of preparing the next sort out of leader. from you and then 75 to 100 is when you kind of go into solitude. So if we're to speak in those early days, early years, what were some early influences, Alisa, that you think have kind of shaped your career, your life in meaningful ways? Alisa Cohn (02:52.638) I mean, that's a big question. Some early influencers. mean, I had some teachers who were very kind to me and really made me feel seen and heard. I joined a youth group when I was about 13, which at first I kind of hated, but then I grew to really like, and then love, and then it really helped for me and shape me. It's a group, youth group called young Judaea. And it was called a peer led youth group, but I was only 13. I didn't know what peer was. I didn't know what peer led was. And, turned out that we we led facilitated discussions for our peers. And so I learned how to facilitate a group discussion when I was 13 years old. So that's certainly shaped me for who I am now. And I think it also brought out a lot of confidence in me and helped me find my tribe, I would say, find like -minded people, because it was like a youth group that did a lot of like discussion groups and not like go to the movies or go have dances. So for me, I was kind of a nerdy kid and kind of like an intellectual kid. So. Finding a group of people I could really relate to, especially during the high school years, was really, really meaningful. Utkarsh Narang (03:55.873) Beautiful. So facilitation started very early at 13. That's a very young age to start facilitating. Any interactions, any moments that I know sometimes I find it challenging to remember too much of my childhood. I don't know, I somehow put it to detachment from who I was to who I want to become. But if any memories of those facilitating those groups or anything else that you feel Alisa Cohn (03:59.12) Yes. I know. Funny, Utkarsh Narang (04:24.031) would be worth sharing here that stays with you. Alisa Cohn (04:27.599) Just that, you know, I had some, I guess I would say from childhood, I had some experiences being bullied. had some experiences being ostracized and, know, I definitely developed my people skills as almost a reaction and defense against ever being ostracized or ever being bullied. And so, you know, I think that what happens to us helps us grow and makes us stronger. And those were very painful experiences to me, but. Utkarsh Narang (04:45.149) you Alisa Cohn (04:57.713) I definitely use them as fuel to kind of grow into who I am now. Utkarsh Narang (05:01.483) Yeah, yeah. It's fascinating you speak about that. But one of the challenges that I often see, Alisa, is that, you know, when you're in the moment, when you're going through adversity or even opportunities, in that moment, that does not seem like a truly growth enduring moment. It feels like, me? Why the hell me? So how do you, like, if you were to say you're coaching someone who's a founder going through, like, tough times, funding is not coming, we are run away for like three months. What is it that you do that kind of helps them see the opportunity in that adversity? Alisa Cohn (05:36.145) Well, first of all, I think it's really helpful to empathize with somebody because when we're through difficult things, we're going through difficult things, they're difficult. And then once you can kind of help somebody, you know, gain their equilibrium back and feel more comfortable and calm, then there's just a curiosity question, is, you know, so given all that, what's possible now? Or, you know, I think once people sit with their upset and their pain, they're able to then see if there's a silver lining inside. Utkarsh Narang (05:42.614) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (05:52.641) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (05:57.323) Mm. Alisa Cohn (06:05.309) And I think that I'm very good at helping people reframe what's going on and also seeing the opportunity. for example, many, many clients or people I know in my 25 year career have gotten laid off, have gotten fired, whatever. I always say best thing that ever happened to you. And they're like, no, it does not that way. It is that way because you're going to make it that way. And I think that's important that we realize we have a lot of self authorship of what's possible for ourselves when we see things the right way. Utkarsh Narang (06:35.105) powerful self authorship. I'm going to cling on to that word. And I very, I think I've heard a conversation between you and Herminia Bara, another person I truly adore and she's been the book working identity. I think that's another book that I like to me. It's like the Bible or the Gita. But take us, take us through like school life, your early ages, starting to facilitate sessions. You've gone these kind of conferences is building up. What's next? What happens next in the journey? Alisa Cohn (07:04.293) Well, I went to college and I went, I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do. And I ended up going to work for international exchange student and nonprofit company. And then from there I went to, I was the chief of staff to the provost at college. And that's where I got this spark. My spark was I was helping strategic planning and the provost said, you can't lead faculty because you can't. Utkarsh Narang (07:06.375) Mm -hmm. Alisa Cohn (07:34.106) lead faculty because they have tenure. And I thought, huh, I can't believe it's not true that people will only do what you want them to do in, you know, if they, if you'll fire them, if you, they don't. So I really was interested in exploring that. And I went off to business school to Cornell to figure out why people do what they want, what they do in service of organizations or sadly not. And in business school, I got all turned around and I focused in finance and accounting and strategy because that's what the cool kids did. And I exited to PricewaterhouseCoopers. Utkarsh Narang (07:36.715) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (07:56.897) Mm. Alisa Cohn (08:04.099) on the so -called five -year, you know, fast track to partnership. So I kind of thought my life was all set at that point. Utkarsh Narang (08:11.551) Yeah, This idea of finding life is set at that point. That's the journey we're going to be on. I think it kind of I've observed it kind of limits us. But in hindsight, how do you feel about that moment when you felt like I figured it out? I've landed in the right places now. Alisa Cohn (08:29.135) well, I mean, I think a lot about the Joseph Campbell quote. If you can see your path all the way through to the end, you are following someone else's path. Your path only becomes clear moment by moment as each as each foot hits the ground. And I that was me. I saw my path all the way through to the end and I was definitely following someone else's path. And so one day I woke up on a Sunday and I thought, I hope I don't have to go to work tomorrow. Hope I get the flu so I'm going to work tomorrow. And I got the flu 18 hours later, I was rushed to the emergency room. Yeah. It was very dramatic. And I was down for the account for two weeks. And then I realized this is not it. This is not what I want to do. And then I had to seek out what is it. And that took a lot of seeking and a lot of, you know, searching. And it was like very challenging, but that's when I met the coach and I was like, that's what I want to do. Utkarsh Narang (09:20.249) As you're going through that phase, know, there are millions around the world and we can promote being an entrepreneur and we can promote becoming a founder or having like a full -time corporate job. It could be anything, but there could be dissatisfaction with any of the roles that we're playing in that moment. What does it mean to be a seeker trying to understand that dissatisfaction and shift it in certain ways? What does that mean? Alisa Cohn (09:47.758) Well, I mean, for me, it just means thinking a lot and contemplating sometimes to a fault. can kind of overthink things and get overly dramatic about like, oh what was me about, you know, things that are going on. And I think though, what it means is that ultimately, I guess I would speak for myself. Like one of my values is the truth. So I seek the truth. I want to know what's real. And so I want to discover, I want to understand, I want to question. And so through all of that, I think that is kind of what animates the seeking that I do. And I think there's a lot of ways to do it. You can write in your journal. You can have conversations with friends or professionals. But ultimately, I think it's about all of us trying to find our own path. Utkarsh Narang (10:29.653) Yeah. And in one of your newsletters, which I read every time you send it, I think the statement that kind of stuck with me is the work is in you. Yeah. Can you say more to that statement? Because it's a very powerful statement. The work is in you. But people, feel, find it really discomforting to think about their own selves or to question themselves or to really pause and introspect where are we going? What's happening with our life? Because there's... Alisa Cohn (10:39.479) Yeah, that's right. Utkarsh Narang (10:58.079) It's just tremendous noise on the outside. So how do you really figure out that the work is in you? Alisa Cohn (11:03.93) You know, I was before I wrote my book, I was just sort of pulling my ideas together and I talked to a writer and we were discussing all of these ideas that I had together and we were talking about it. And he was sort of asking me, so how do you start with this kind of client? And I said, well, know, first we assess what's going on inside of them. Well, how do you start with this kind of client? Well, first we assess what's going on inside of them, et cetera, et cetera. And he kept saying, it feels like You always start by figuring out what's going on inside of them. I said, yeah, because the work is in you. And he said, huh, that almost sounds like a book title. And so I was like, yeah. So as you may or may not know, I actually did a rap music video called the work is in you, which is widely available, readily available on YouTube. you know, I just really think that for all of us, It all starts with you. book, my book from start up to grown up is divided into three sections, managing yourself, managing them and managing the organization. And so it starts with you because you as a new client may come to me and tell me, I have a problem with this individual and I can't give him feedback or he's not taking the feedback or whatever, or our sales keep going down and we don't know why. And that's, we should definitely talk about that, but it's got to start with what's going with you. that you haven't had this conversation with this difficult person who you haven't given the feedback to. What's going on with you that you've taken your eye off the ball around, you know, the sort of the sales or some of the key aspects of the company. And if you don't start there, then you're just painting over a whole bunch of stuff, but you're not getting at the root cause. Utkarsh Narang (12:45.963) Yeah. That's so, and to all the listeners who've not yet watched the rap that, that Alisa has done, you should, you should first finish this podcast and then go to YouTube and search for it. It's, it's, it's funny. It's amazing. Alisa Cohn (12:58.051) Just search for Alisa Cohn and the work is in you. Utkarsh Narang (13:01.409) Yes, yes, beautiful, beautiful. You spoke about introspection. I think that's a really powerful. The one book idea, like the title that you shared, that's been kind of brewing within me and hoping to come out is just the 2 % rule. And what I was trying to just figure out is that if we were to calculate 2 % of 24 hours, which is just 28 minutes, if you could just start with that much work within us, I think that's a great starting point to opening up new horizons. Alisa Cohn (13:31.254) I love that, that's a great idea. Utkarsh Narang (13:32.811) Yeah, thank you. Thank you. And you spoke about values, Alisa. You spoke about truth. You spoke about being a seeker. Are there other set of values that drive you in all that you do? Alisa Cohn (13:44.364) Well, another value of mine is connection. So being connected to people, to my clients, to my friends, my family, for sure. And another value is excellence, as in doing a good job. Utkarsh Narang (13:55.493) Beautiful. Excellence is one of my values as well. I operate with five, discipline, excellence, freedom, then growth to me is like, I feel restless if I'm not growing and then love. That whatever we do, we got to do it with a lot. And I think that speaks to what you're saying about connection. But this excellence, how does that show up? Alisa Cohn (14:08.372) it's beautiful. Alisa Cohn (14:17.356) Well, I hope that I'm excellent in the work that I do with my clients, but I also, you know, I just sort of think like, why, like, even if I go to a restaurant or a store and someone's just kind of mailing it in, it just bugs me. You know, if you're going to be there at work doing whatever it is you're doing, why don't you try to bring excellence to it? And I think about that in aspects of my life and certainly in aspects of my work, about just bringing your best. Utkarsh Narang (14:44.282) Yeah, yeah. And as you're saying, you know, it connects back to that the work is in you until unless you understand that what level of excellence you want to bring, why doing what you're doing matters, that excellence is not going to show up, not going to show up. Alisa Cohn (14:59.222) Yeah, for sure. And there's a quote attributed to Tom Watson, who's known as the, he's not really the founder of IBM, but he's known as the founder of IBM. And someone asked him, how long does it take to be excellent? And he said, a second. It's a decision that you make, which I love. Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (15:15.905) Powerful, powerful. It's a switch on switch off button. You switch it on and then you don't let it go down. Wonderful. So when now Cornell has happened, PWC has happened and you're looking at like you found your coach, know you're not in the flu attack happened. It all turned out, all the drama happened. We could take two parts from here. We could go into the journey where I remember that. that conversation that you've shared in one of, think the podcast with Tim where it's about how you and Marshall met and had a conversation. We could go that path, but I'd love to, if you're open to it, also understanding where the personal journey was shaping up for you as an individual. Alisa Cohn (15:56.567) Sure, either way. Utkarsh Narang (15:58.45) Let's start with the personal journey then. Alisa Cohn (16:00.833) So what do you want me to talk about? Utkarsh Narang (16:03.253) So if you could share like how is life shaping overall? Like there's this professional aspect of us, right? Which is that we're writing books, but what about family? What about friends? What about connections? How are they forming at this stage when you're say entering the next phase after PWC? Alisa Cohn (16:19.585) Well, I mean, that was very challenging. mean, I figured out, first of all, I joined the startup world for two years before I became a coach and went out on my own. But I was very focused on work and I was very focused on, you know, making sure that like, was I going to be okay? You know, was I going to be okay? Am I going to be okay? Like I would have this voice in my head that would say like, what's good? What will become of me? And Utkarsh Narang (16:33.142) Mm. Alisa Cohn (16:45.707) You know, so I worked really hard and didn't always make time for friends and for other kinds of connections. I was married, I got divorced and you know, on the one, and I don't think it was so much about cause of work. think it was really because that wasn't the right person. So back to self authorship, self authorship, you know, I didn't know myself well enough to marry the right person in that time. And it took me a long time to, think, you know, build the relationship skills. So now I'm in a happy relationship. that I have kind of the community around me that I love, but it took a long time. And I think all of us have to figure out where we're going to devote our time. And I devoted a lot of time to work first, to work and then to building my practice for sure. Utkarsh Narang (17:29.921) Beautiful, beautiful. And as you went through that stage when you were talking about like there's this voice in the head which calls us out all the time, right? When we're trying to make any decisions, personal or professional, it keeps telling us, Utkash, what if you fail? Utkash, what if everything? Utkash, you're an imposter. What are you trying to do? How do you really speak to that voice? Alisa Cohn (17:51.872) Well, I had that voice very consciously. I was, I was living in Boston and I just decided to become a coach and I was just like failing my way. And I was in the gym. I went to the gym and for whatever reason, I just couldn't take it. And I was just feeling so much pressure. And I went to the corner and started to cry. I was just so like, what will become of me? What will become of me? And then out of nowhere, I channeled the voice of my 90 year old self, like a grandmother looking down on me saying, Utkarsh Narang (18:01.547) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Alisa Cohn (18:26.442) What was she so upset about? You know, she had parents who weren't gonna let her starve. She had some money in the bank. She was building this thing she really wanted to do. What was she so upset about? And that's when I realized that part of what I was so upset about was being judged. And I just was like, okay, I'm just gonna do this thing for six months and then we'll see what happens and I'll figure it out after that. Utkarsh Narang (18:48.769) Wow, wow, thank you. It just, and I'm being very honest and open -headed, it just made very, the journey very real for me, for myself and for what you're sharing, Alisa. Thank you for this space and vulnerability. This idea of being judged and how things should shape up, the shoulds and the woulds and the coulds that we do on our own. But having this 90 -year -old self come back to you, it has to take a lot of inner work for one to reach there because I feel like it does not naturally just pop up. So do you think what helped you have that conversation in the gym that day? Alisa Cohn (19:31.934) it takes a lot of inner work. I know that when I was like in sixth grade, I used to have out of body experiences. It was hard to explain. I was actually in a play in sixth grade and I was remembering thinking like, hope I don't have an out of body experience while I'm on stage, you know? And so I think that I've always been attuned to that kind of thing and to sort of maybe the something that's a little spiritual or something that's like visualization. I don't know. I don't know if it takes inner work, but I guess I come back to Utkarsh Narang (19:40.982) Mm Utkarsh Narang (19:57.481) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Alisa Cohn (20:02.335) part of, you know, we talked about values. One of my values is personal growth and always has been. And so the idea of being a seeker, the idea of growing, the idea of, you know, pushing myself and learning about myself has always been paramount to me. Utkarsh Narang (20:07.359) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (20:17.845) Powerful, powerful. I think what I'm gaining and hopefully the listeners will understand the nuance of what you're saying is that at the core of everything, it might on the outside seem how life's taking like a roller coaster journey, going left, right, center, up and down. But at the core, when you have these values that you can go back to, which in the moment might not seem clear, but as you look at them in hindsight and retrospect, as Steve Jobs used to say, you could connect the dots backwards. And I think... what you're saying about connection, about personal growth, about excellence, the truth, the seeker, it just beautifully comes to being the way it is coming. So thank you for all the sharing. Alisa Cohn (20:58.229) You're welcome. There's also something there about time. So as I was telling you about my 90 year old self, I was remembering. So first of all, I remembered being in the gym and crying in the corner and I remembered my 90 year old self and that was, you know, 20 years ago. So it's really important for all of us to remember that time goes by whether you do something about it or you don't. Utkarsh Narang (21:03.083) Hmm. Alisa Cohn (21:23.829) whether you have the same year over and over and over again in 10 or 20 years go by, or whether you're committed to growing and having a different year. But one way or the other, that 90 -year -old self is coming for you. And there's a way in which it's very supportive to see that. And there's also a reckoning. Like, I hope that you did the thing that you said was important to you. Utkarsh Narang (21:44.001) Powerful, powerful. Everyone, I got to reiterate this. The 90 -year -old is coming for you. How do you want to show up? It again comes back to that switch on, switch off. It's a button. If you make that decision of changing 2024, the 25, the 23, the 27, we could talk about these. I see posts on social media, 90 days left to the end of the year. What are you doing about it? Alisa Cohn (21:48.404) You Utkarsh Narang (22:08.449) You choose to change this year or maybe the next or the week after or year after, but you've got to choose and do the hard work. Let's go back to the journey. you're in this space where the 90 year old is coming back and talking to you and you're starting something of your own. It's at any stage when you start something new, it's just overwhelming. I can almost sense my heart rate going up. So how was it? what evolved during that period that helped you be where you are right now. Alisa Cohn (22:41.566) You mean when I started becoming a coach, when I started coaching? I mean, I just hustled. First of all, I thought, I'm going to freaking do this. I'm just going to do it. And I remember I had a friend, Susan, and she was talking to somebody about how Alisa's going to become a coach. And that person said, that's pretty competitive space. And she said, you don't know Alisa. That's how I felt. I'm very determined. Utkarsh Narang (22:43.551) Yes, yes. Utkarsh Narang (23:07.484) Thank Alisa Cohn (23:08.882) I'm very determined and I hustled every day for five years. I didn't take a calm breath for five years. know, networking and figuring out who I was gonna coach and what my space was gonna be. I just put a lot of hard work in. Utkarsh Narang (23:22.309) Wow. If you were to like now and then I love the number three, so extract like three lessons from those five years that you think anyone who's starting off right now, whether they are starting in as a coach, in marketing, becoming a founder, whatever it might be, or maybe fresh out of a business school trying to get themselves a job. What are those three things that you would want them to really like just write, maybe get it tattooed on their arm and look at it every day? Alisa Cohn (23:52.03) Well, I think number one is believe in yourself and then act like it. The second is it takes hard work. And the third is you've got to build your brand, whatever it is you're doing about your internal brand to a company or external brand. If you're a solopreneur or whatever, you've got to find a way to set yourself apart. Utkarsh Narang (24:14.977) So believe in yourself and then act accordingly. Hard work has no, there's no replacement to hard work and building a brand. These are all powerful. just taking a moment to look at them and see. If you want to go back to that time, the five years, which is one moment or maybe one interaction that you feel really made you feel like, yes, I believed in myself. I acted, but now I've arrived. When was that I've arrived moment for you? Alisa Cohn (24:50.526) Well, I'm not sure if the I have arrived moment happened in my first five years of coaching, but I did start working with a company called EMC, which was, you know, sold to Dell about five or over five years ago. but at that time it was a large public company in Massachusetts. And I started out by facilitating the business acumen curriculum, cause I was a CPA. And so they took me to do that. And I thought I'm going to work my way into leadership curriculum. That's what's going to happen. Utkarsh Narang (24:57.355) Mm Alisa Cohn (25:19.796) And that's exactly what happened. And then once I worked my way into leadership curriculum and facilitating leadership curriculum, I then, you know, I felt like I got named one of the top 10 business coaches in Boston. And I felt like the people at EMC didn't even know I was a coach. So I had to like, you know, put that into their line of sight. And then I started coaching at EMC and that was just like this joyful part of my. Utkarsh Narang (25:19.969) Hmm. Alisa Cohn (25:45.362) my days where I was like doing a lot of work with them and coaching a lot of people and facilitating a lot and feeling like a real partner to them. So that was really exciting and a great time. Utkarsh Narang (25:55.581) Hmm, powerful. And so if it did not arrive in the first five years, you were finding your way through building that niche. Do you feel that that I arrived moment happened at a specific specific moment in the career? Alisa Cohn (26:10.292) That's hard to say because there are moments of arriving and there are moments of just like peak moments like meeting Marshall Goldsmith was definitely a peak moment and my first day with him and working with him side by side for two years was a very peak experience and doing all the things that you get to do when you hang around Marshall, which are like so heady and extraordinary and fun and meeting so many people through Marshall and then, you know, getting published and then ultimately writing my book. Utkarsh Narang (26:13.867) Mm Alisa Cohn (26:38.45) and being on the Tim Ferriss show, mean, all these things were like definitely peak moments for Utkarsh Narang (26:43.898) So it's a journey. But if I don't ask you, what is your present self doing? That's in service of the future self. Alisa Cohn (26:54.284) my present self is doing, working on, so always working on myself. The work is in me. Okay. So the work is in you and I'm working on, how can I say being more attuned to my North star and being more judicious about what I say yes to and what I say no to, because I think there was a lot of things that are waiting to be born and I can't, they're not going to be born if I don't let, let, let them. Utkarsh Narang (27:02.613) Mm -hmm. Alisa Cohn (27:22.942) give them space and time. Utkarsh Narang (27:26.717) So trying to say yes to things that are in pursuit of that North Star. And what you're saying, I think is powerful that unless you give time to for things to get conceived, it'll not happen. It'll not happen. Perfect, perfect thing. We've spoken about Marshall Goldsmith from the start to now, and I've never met. The man is a mere idea to me and I see him on LinkedIn and whatnot. Alisa Cohn (27:39.144) Right, yes. Utkarsh Narang (27:53.365) and, I'm a fan, like the book, so I worked with better up and better up sent us the book. yeah. So it sent us a book, that, that Marshall wrote, and earn life. was trying to remember the name of the book. And again, read that book in one go. Goosebumps after page after page, page after page. I was like, how's it to, to it's like, I'm asking like, again, a fanboy moment. How's it to walk with him and to work with him? Like. Alisa Cohn (27:59.203) good for you. Utkarsh Narang (28:21.724) any insights and any stories that you would have. Alisa Cohn (28:25.128) Well, when I first met him, he took me for a long walk in his neighborhood. And that's when he asked me to do some work with him, which was, you know, of course, very exciting. I know what you mean. I was like, the great man. boy. You know, my gosh. And then I got to know him and I was always a little, let's say, shy, you know, shy around him my first few years. And then one day, years later, Marshall called me on my cell phone. And I was like, huh, that girl who was so like, about Marshall is now being like, hi, Marshall on my cell phone. And it's really rewarding. So rewarding to be able to be such, you know, dear friends with him and have him mentor me and being part of the one hundred, you know, he created the one hundred coaches, the collection of the top coaches in the world and being part of that and having that peer group. trying to think of like one moment. mean, whenever you're with Marshall, there's always, you know, moments like he laughs about everything. He, you know, he's always drinking champagne. He's always pushing champagne on you. He, we did this, we were in Nashville. He did this gathering in Nashville and he invited some of his inner circle. Again, being in Marshall's inner circle now, what a big deal. He, invited us to this special sort of event with just some songwriters, like 50 people and these beautiful songwriters singing their songs in Nashville. And I love music and I would say it was just idyllic. It was just really, you know, so wonderful to be part of the community there. Utkarsh Narang (30:03.361) Thank you, thank you for sharing. It's so poetic, know, like how mentors can really shape us in the journeys that we're on. If we were to come to like, almost like the third stage now, which is it's time to now raise the next set of leadership in the coaching world. Marshall, you're like epitomes of what success might look like. What do you think your role is as you grow the next, frontline of leaders in the coaching industry and beyond. Alisa Cohn (30:37.574) hopefully inspire others like through things like your podcast and you know other ways that I can sort of get in front of other people to inspire them and to recognize that they have a big difference to make and you know to share my story of making a difference and to encourage other people. Utkarsh Narang (30:52.161) Beautiful. If the 90 year old Alisa were to come back and have this conversation with you right now, how would she be looking at you and what would she be saying? Alisa Cohn (31:03.636) Well, I'm sure, first of all, you say, what would she be saying? But again, one day I'm gonna meet that 90 year old self. Do not forget, we all are, more or less, right? I think that she would say, you did it. Which is really meaningful. Utkarsh Narang (31:21.493) You did it. This word as we are kind of coming to that closing stage, this word legacy has been something that I've always played with wanting to build one or not being concerned about it, being attached to it, being detached to it. How does that resonate with you, the word legacy? Alisa Cohn (31:42.18) You know, I don't think much about legacy. It's a big word for Marshall. I don't, not sure if I'm old enough yet to think about legacy, right? Per se, but I do think about impact. And so for me, it's always about having impact on others. So I appreciate that. You know, you reached out to me because you me on LinkedIn. You know, I appreciate that. By the way, the reason I'm like, Utkarsh Narang (31:53.953) Hmm. Alisa Cohn (32:08.351) sure, I'll do your podcast is because you're so kind about constantly commenting on my posts on LinkedIn. And I thought, well, you're really, you know, you're putting out good things in the world and you're putting out good energy and I want to be amplifying good energy. And so I guess I would say, I think much more about impact of people who I've touched. And that is very rewarding through my newsletter, through my book. It's really rewarding when someone you didn't know. Utkarsh Narang (32:29.652) Mm Alisa Cohn (32:37.375) Like your friends, say, they read their book, right? My boyfriend, I read your book, you know, like, of course, right? But people who I don't know, and they say, I've read your book, it made me feel great, I loved it so much. It was like this and that. It's so meaningful, right? That I had an impact there and then on that person. That's what I try to do. Utkarsh Narang (32:54.091) Yeah, Powerful. And that impact to me, it's it's ripple effects, right? Because when you coach founders, how they then operate with their people and how they do things differently with their people, that then ultimately leads to a deeper impact across civilizations and generations and cultures and whatnot. This is so beautiful. I'm really enjoying this conversation and thank you. And you know, when you were saying, I think, Alisa Cohn (33:00.761) Mm Utkarsh Narang (33:23.423) What's important for us is to really sow the seeds in the universe and let them then thrive. Because for me, it's important people like you and others that I want to connect with and follow. I think there's so much to learn that having this time with you is like precious to me. So thank you for saying yes to the podcast. As we move towards the closing, so to say, what is that one big project, Alisa, that you feel that... I still have to make it happen. And if I don't, then it'll be like, why didn't I focus on that? Alisa Cohn (33:58.914) I don't have an answer for that. I've been thinking a lot about like, where does my creativity get devoted to right now? And I don't necessarily know. I think that's a mystery that I'm still, you know, as Rilke says, living the question. Utkarsh Narang (34:03.935) Mm. Utkarsh Narang (34:12.705) Hmm. And so you're creating that space where, where the idea will conceive and grow and take beyond. Beautiful. Beautiful. If you were to synthesize your life till now, and there's more till that, till you get to meet the 90 year old, what would be one sentence, one quotation? What's that one statement that you feel summarizes it? Alisa Cohn (34:40.864) one statement that summarizes my life. Utkarsh Narang (34:43.137) Till this moment. Alisa Cohn (34:44.878) That's a big question. I don't know how to answer what summarizes my life. think what I have embodied and is important, has been important to me is like this sort of go for it stance. Maybe getting out of my comfort zone. know, constantly pushing myself out of my comfort zone. Utkarsh Narang (35:02.827) Hmm. Utkarsh Narang (35:06.017) getting out of your comfort zone. Go for it and get out of your comfort zone. That's the lesson that we're gonna leave our listeners. One final segment that we have for our podcast is that I'd love for our present guest to nominate someone to be a guest on this podcast. And so I don't know how that materializes in the real world. I have no idea. But if you were to right now think of one person, maybe take 15 seconds to answer that, who you think should have a conversation with me here? Who could that be and what's your message to that person? You can look at the camera and just throw it out to them right now. Alisa Cohn (35:42.06) You know, do you edit your podcast? hope you your podcast. Okay, I'm not gonna do that. I don't think that's a little too much pressure on me and on the person I might nominate. Yeah. Utkarsh Narang (35:45.001) Yes, yes we do. Yes we do. Okay. Utkarsh Narang (35:52.265) Okay, no problem. We'll edit this out and I truly appreciate that. That's absolutely okay. Finally, final thing is, yeah, just threw me out of my sense for a second, but I'll come back. Yeah. So we'll edit that out and then we'll come back to just ending the podcast. That was, what did you last answer? I'm trying to pick it up from there. Alisa Cohn (36:05.23) It's okay. Utkarsh Narang (36:18.739) the editor will find a way to do that. No, thank you so much, Alisa. I truly appreciate the conversation that we have had today. I think there are gems and diamonds and lessons that people could take out of it. If you've not read the book yet, I highly recommend reading this book if you're a founder. If you're doing anything, absolutely, from startup to grown up. And remember, the work is in you. I think this is beautiful. All the links will be in the show notes. You don't have to worry about that. So we can follow Alisa. Alisa Cohn (36:34.7) From startup to grown -up. From startup to grown -up. Utkarsh Narang (36:48.629) We can look at her newsletter and follow her on LinkedIn. It's some amazing content that she's putting out there in the world. And it was a joy to have you, Alisa. And yeah, any thoughts before we leave? Alisa Cohn (36:58.998) Well, just thank you so much. I so enjoyed the conversation and I really wish you great luck on your podcast. You have a lot to contribute to the world. Utkarsh Narang (37:06.389) Thank you so much. truly appreciate it. and we'll wait for a few minutes. Utkarsh Narang (37:15.981) 99 % uploaded and yours is also 99. Thank you for doing this at this time. We'll edit that part. I appreciate that. This was, and for me it was very important for me to find a way to have a list of the human being and the 90 year old self and the six year old and the 13 year old, all of that to come out. So I really appreciate that. Anything else that you would want us to kind of. Alisa Cohn (37:42.322) No, this is great. It was my pleasure to do it and I hope it was, was, get what you wanted. Excellent. Yeah, but you need to turn the recording off. No, it's still recording.